John, the shroud of Turin is a fake. End of story. Jesus didn't exist as the character portrayed in the bible, so how can there be a frikking burial shroud?
Gabriel's Revelation: The latest controversy about the Christ myth
- Thread starter Tiassa
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1. it seems the opposite is also true, anti-Christians will put out any wild idea even if it does not fit to try & discredit it
2. people mention the Gnostic Gospels, etc... have you ever read any? I've read the Gospel of Thomas, it does not "read" real, it has like the wrong 'taste', read it for yourself along with the Gospel of Matthew, see if you can tell the difference? so, could you be guilty of this: "uphold a fake when it agrees with your dogma."?
3. could you re-check your "facts" or re-state this sentence, the "Bible" is all 66 books put together (both Old Testament & New Testament), I think you meant the "New Testament" only, which makes sense because it was written to tell His story after His death & Resurrection. If you check the facts, the Old Testament had been completed by at least 300 years before Jesus came on the scene but don't take my word for it, check Jewish sources.
4. your statements make sense if you think of this idea in context; if we are made by God, & have a "God module" in our brain & have a "distant memory" of our sojourn with God, then it makes sense. There is a book, "Eternity in their Hearts" by Don Richardson that explores that theme, you're welcome to read it
5. Have you ever read Isaiah? Written approx 701 BC.Try verses 9:6-7,11:1-5, 42:1-4, 53:1-12. All the early believers were Jews because they saw in Jesus the fulfillment of the Prophets & many had lived in Jerusalem, Judea & Galilee during His lifetime
6. if that's true that Jesus did not exist, then all the early Christians suffered persecution & death for nothing, including Paul (an early persecutor of the Church that converted). Paul even mentions that if the Resurrection is not true, Christians are to be pitied above all.
point of reference; if you read the history of the Roman Empire, you will see the ferociousness that it went after Christians from Nero until Constantine in 312 AD.
7. which reminds me of;
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Heb 11:1&version=47
and
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john 20:24-29
thanks Phlogistician for helping me in a Bible study
Felix, nit picking and quoting the bible aren't going to get you anywhere.
The bible (and I mean NT, as Christians do not abide what is written in the OT themselves!) was written many years after the death of 'Jesus' and many of the attributes and myths about that character are clearly based on earlier myths. The people that wrote the gospels were either acting politically to unite different factions by combining their myths, or just confused.
Tablets such as this, and the details about Mithraism clearly show that Jesus is a construct, not a real and distinct entity. Do you not think it rather odd that Christmas is celebrated on the day that is actually the birthday of Mithras? Mithras also allegedly performed miracles, ... another coincidence?
The bible (and I mean NT, as Christians do not abide what is written in the OT themselves!) was written many years after the death of 'Jesus' and many of the attributes and myths about that character are clearly based on earlier myths. The people that wrote the gospels were either acting politically to unite different factions by combining their myths, or just confused.
Tablets such as this, and the details about Mithraism clearly show that Jesus is a construct, not a real and distinct entity. Do you not think it rather odd that Christmas is celebrated on the day that is actually the birthday of Mithras? Mithras also allegedly performed miracles, ... another coincidence?
So the myth that is that both Jesus and Mithras had exceptional conceptions.
December 25th is the birthday of Mithras. Christmas was placed on that day to to placate Mithraists when Christianity took over. It was a political move, there's no historical fact or reason behind it. Face it, when you celebrate Christmas, you are indulging in an old pagan festival that got rebranded.
Face it, things attributed to Jesus were stolen from preceding myths.
Are you saying Jesus was born on December 25th?
w1z4rd
Valued Senior Member
My 2 cents about the Shroud of Turin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin
Since I have fair knowledge on how dating works.. I am pretty confident in those results. Its a pity after those results.. they wont allow more modern methods of dating. Though I am sure they would confirm them... or at least be within 100-300 years of their dating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin
Since I have fair knowledge on how dating works.. I am pretty confident in those results. Its a pity after those results.. they wont allow more modern methods of dating. Though I am sure they would confirm them... or at least be within 100-300 years of their dating.
If you have not even read the bible as you claim how can you be so sure?
It’s obvious if you read the OT and NT that they did indeed draw upon ideas and myths of other cultures.
Much of it from the Ancient Egyptians.
I personally believe Jesus was an enlightened man who essentially preached a very simple message….be selfless and practice unconditional love. This simple message no doubt agitated the old Patriarchs and others who wanted to enforce a strict disiplinarian portrayal of God (Yahweh) so in their attempt to suck up to their masters the Romans..he was soldout and executed. Yrs later after this event people like Paul and the gospel writers(men who never even met Jesus) either mis-intrepretated his death and tried to make sense out of it or they deliberately lied to create an idealogy ..an idealogy that eventually appealed to the dying Roman Empire.
Many people who claim to have NDE’s and have talked to Jesus or however God manifested he/she self to them were told this was essentially the case. Guess we find out when we die.
Be sure about what? I have to read all the religious books of every religion?
I know enough and have done enough research to make assessments based on reason and common sense.
Even if you look at Christianity, Islam and Judaism. No one disputes this and the theory phlogistician is trying to perpetuate is just annoying. They are all the same people, so many things crossed over this is obvious.
I know enough and have done enough research to make assessments based on reason and common sense.
Even if you look at Christianity, Islam and Judaism. No one disputes this and the theory phlogistician is trying to perpetuate is just annoying. They are all the same people, so many things crossed over this is obvious.
That was what I was referring to in a previous post but, those who want to believe the Shroud is genuine will do so whatever evidence to the contrary is adduced. Religious people are like that.
So you call me retarded, but accept that I am right and that religions have borrowed myths from each other?
Why?
The Turin Shroud has been conclusively shown to be a late forgery.
If you think you have evidence otherwise, YOU should post it.
Iasion
Greetings,
So what?
Various tests have shown it is a forgery.
But you think you can just ignore proven scientific results because - well because you are a faithful believer who faithfully believes what other faithful believers have convinced you to faithfully believe.
Even though the evidence proves you wrong.
Iasion
So what?
Various tests have shown it is a forgery.
But you think you can just ignore proven scientific results because - well because you are a faithful believer who faithfully believes what other faithful believers have convinced you to faithfully believe.
Even though the evidence proves you wrong.
Iasion
Hi all,
Wrong.
The tests were conclusive.
And experiments HAVE duplicated features of the shroud.
So, now you are admitting is WAS forged in the middle ages?
It HAS been done :
http://www.miraclesceptic.com/shroud.html#_HOW_TO_MAKE_A_TURIN_SHROUD
"The authors made an image like the Shroud image and it is admitted even by critics that the chemical solution the book says Leonardo used to make the snap could have been available to Leonardo (www.unisa.ac.za/dept/press/dearte/52/shroud2.html How Leonardo Did not Fake the Shroud of Turin, Nicholas Legh Allen). "
The Shroud is KNOWN to be a fake.
Only ignorant fundies still think otherwise.
Iasion
Wrong.
The tests were conclusive.
And experiments HAVE duplicated features of the shroud.
So, now you are admitting is WAS forged in the middle ages?
It HAS been done :
http://www.miraclesceptic.com/shroud.html#_HOW_TO_MAKE_A_TURIN_SHROUD
"The authors made an image like the Shroud image and it is admitted even by critics that the chemical solution the book says Leonardo used to make the snap could have been available to Leonardo (www.unisa.ac.za/dept/press/dearte/52/shroud2.html How Leonardo Did not Fake the Shroud of Turin, Nicholas Legh Allen). "
The Shroud is KNOWN to be a fake.
Only ignorant fundies still think otherwise.
Iasion
How can there be? It is embarrassing that stuff like this should even come up. All of this Mithraic similarities, which are flat out lies, originated from a high school paper and were picked up by various people. Personally i don't like being lied to, that is really all there is to it.
I can tell you where it originated, who picked it up and the reasons for it too. With 100% accuracy, like a laser.
Admitting to what? Dont ever make accusations towards John or imply that i am a liar.
There are things you just are not meant to know. It really is that simple.
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That site is like the national enquirer. Bring the author here and we will discuss things.
I wont even read the site, i will just think about it. And i will tell them all about it.
Bring them here tomorrow - at midnight.
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Please provide a link then.