Free Willy

Do human's have free will?

  • Yes

    Votes: 18 60.0%

  • No

    Votes: 12 40.0%
  • Total voters
    30
Yes.
We're just influenced heavily by others that we at times feel as though we do not.
 
Yes we do. But, it is heavily tempered by various needs, necessities and conditioning. We need to survive, which means in most cases, having to hold down a job, even if it's a job we hate. We need to have relationships, which means friends, spouses, children, family etc. We are conditioned, which means we have to follow even loosely, the laws of the land, the laws of our religions if we have any, or even the laws of the 'alternative' societies that we may be attracted to and aspire to be a part of. We even have to follow our own individual self-created laws that are part of our ego but were ultimately formed from our conditioning.

All these things create anchors and weights that tend to keep us tethered within a remarkably small space of individual expression and habituality, but we still practise a certain amount of free will even within those constraints.
 
Enigma'07 said:
yes, otherwise we could not make descisions
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If you'd been taught what to say, what to do, when to do it, those "decisions" would be easy! And that is exactly what's going on when we make "decisions" .....it ain't free will, it's will that's been so influenced and conditioned by our upbringing and by society that whatever we do is not actually our own decisions. No matter how much we want it to be!! :)

Baron Max
 
no, we will always make the best choice available to us, and so there is only one possible choice for us... ie no free will
 
Then why do people get stressed out by descisions already programed into them?
 
I think not. At least no more than any assemblage of particles. We're all prisoners to universal law.
 
Failing to recognise free will conveniently absolves people for taking responsibility for their actions.
 
James R said:
Failing to recognise free will conveniently absolves people for taking responsibility for their actions.
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How does it do that? As I see it, there's nothing in the idea of free will (or not) that says that one MUST do something ....only that he has the option!

Baron Max
 
Do I really need to spell it out for you, Baron? Ok.

If we don't have free will, then all our actions are predetermined. If I kill somebody, it wasn't a free choice of mine to do that, because I couldn't have chosen not to kill. Therefore, I am not morally responsible for the killing.

See?
 
James R said:
If I kill somebody, it wasn't a free choice of mine to do that, because I couldn't have chosen not to kill. Therefore, I am not morally responsible for the killing. See?
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Well, sure ...perhaps not "morally" responsible (psycho-babble bullshit!), but you still murdered someone, so you should be removed from the society so you don't murder someone else! Those who are "pre-determined" to murder should still be executed for the crime ...even if the psycho-babble-ists want to argue their nonsensical bullshit!

James R said:
Do I really need to spell it out for you, Baron?
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Yeah, I guess so ...because nothing you've said proves or disproves the notion of "free will".

Baron Max
 
Ya' know, I think that maybe, just maybe, that a human baby who grew up in total isolation from both animals and humans might have a chance at what we call "free will". He'd never be taught anything by anyone or any animal; he'd never be punished for doing something wrong; he'd never have tv to teach him anything about humans or about animals; nor would he has anything except his "total isolation" experiences as a learning tool.

At that point, if you brough him into the existing world of humans and turned him loose, he might, just maybe, actually have "free will" for a few moments ...but only for a few moments! He'd learn quickly what he should and shouldn't do, wouldn't he? And once he did, he'd no longer actually have "free will".

We're just taught too much about right n' wrong from infancy to ever consider that any of us actually have "free will" ...it's not free, we've been taught too much, and that just fucks up any chance of a person's "free will". Even the most vicious, horrible killers have what we term "values", even if those values are fucked up ..."honor among thieves", etc.

Baron Max
 
Baron Max:
Well, sure ...perhaps not "morally" responsible (psycho-babble bullshit!), but you still murdered someone, so you should be removed from the society so you don't murder someone else!
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Agreed. However, the notion of 'punishment' goes out the window. You can't punish someone for an action that they were 'forced' to commit.
 
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