It's also interesting that there is a lot of homophobia among the black community. You would have thought that they would advocate civil rights for all groups.
Founder of Westboro church in Kansas excommunicated, on deathbed: son
- Thread starter Sorcerer
- Start date
It's also interesting that there is a lot of homophobia among the black community. You would have thought that they would advocate civil rights for all groups.
I wonder whether they will picket his funeral?
Very good.
If they're looking to just push him off into a ditch or something, I'm free Sunday. Travel and food charges only; actual services functions are gratuit.
There seems to be this desire to pretend at playing the better fellow by not dancing on this man's not-quite-grave. As an educated member of society, let me be among those who add their voices to this conversation to say: fuck that. By all means dance on his grave. The pig is dead; well, good. It wasn't quite the way he ought to have gone, sure - an unfortunate auto-erotic asphyxiation accident was certainly at the height of my hopes - but by all means, be glad that he's dead.
And it should also be said: however soon he went, it wasn't soon enough. Stupidity and evil breeds the same, by and large, and while I'm grateful enough that the goodly Reverend Phelps will now be pushing up "God Hates Fags" signs rather than carrying them while, you know, breathing, it really would have been much more advantageous for his death to have come a lot sooner. In fact, I can think of no better time than, say, while carrying one of the aforesaid signs, or perhaps while sitting down to dinner with the family.
Imagine the tableau: a raging circle of sign carriers (or however the hell they did the protests, maybe sitting in lawn chairs, I don't really know) marching around in front of a church, or a gay resource centre, their rail-thin steely-eyed patriarch at the forefront of the howling, shaking a bony fist into the winds of rationalism, thinning hair rippling in the breeze, his gray shirt-coat waving ever so slightly as he leans into that stiff remorseless wind, eyes alight with fanaticism - and then he suddenly shits himself and keels over on the very sidewalks funded by the government and society he hates.
There is a confused lull in the howling - is Fred all right? Perhaps he's only stumbled. Maybe he just needs some water. And then the sickly realisation hits them all at the same time that the scent of raw sewage rises out of his rapidly browning pantaloons that not only is Fred not all right, but actually completely fucking dead and that someone, someone - and let's face it, it's going to be you, Steve - now has to clean up his shitty, dead, already slightly sickly-sweet corpse. And one of them loses his or her lunch - maybe two, even. And then the camera pans back on the dejected, confused crowd. Yes, that's right, assholes: God's spokesman just copped it in an obvious and somewhat ironic way. What a shame. Maybe we should pick up a different hobby.
Dinner scene: same shit, same guy, but now it's in front of his sick, mad family. And the howling and screaming - Steve! call a doctor! You're nearest the portable! - and the women weeping and wailing as their beloved patriarch of paranoia is stone-cold dead and already starting to smell.
Thomas a Becket had his fucking brains mashed in on his own altar by four ass-heads and when he died it was said a horde of lice and vermin quitted his rotting body on the bier when it was touched. Thomas a Becket. So fuck the concern over their false, fascist sanctimony. I hope the parents of war dead his idiots called up return the favour and reduce his family and followers to tears ever time they do it, although in all fairness this would be purely because under the laws of this benighted society they can't simply be taken out and shot.
To be honest, in a way I agree with you... his family deserves to suffer for what they have done to others... but at the same time, in my personal belief, I know there is a special place where people like him go when they die, where they are forced to dress as maids and bend over every hour or so to take a large prickly pineapple straight up the arse.
Or, that MIGHT just be a movie... dont' quote me on that
Or, that MIGHT just be a movie... dont' quote me on that
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
There was a long op-ed in today's Washington Post, written by an officer of one of America's LGBT organizations. The essence of it was, "Why don't we make it our goal to show the world that we are better than him, by being respectfully quiet and leaving his family to grieve in peace?"
Seems like a good idea to me. Especially since he apparently did not speak for his entire family anyway. They're probably relieved.
Seems like a good idea to me. Especially since he apparently did not speak for his entire family anyway. They're probably relieved.
Yes, of course.
What else would any decent person do?
The behaviour of this church has been appalling, but let them grieve in peace.
If indeed they are grieving.
Having expelled him, they probably think he is hell bound.
What did he do wrong?
Did he watch the Wizard of Oz at Christmas and say he enjoyed it?
What else would any decent person do?
The behaviour of this church has been appalling, but let them grieve in peace.
If indeed they are grieving.
Having expelled him, they probably think he is hell bound.
What did he do wrong?
Did he watch the Wizard of Oz at Christmas and say he enjoyed it?
To be honest, in a way I agree with you... his family deserves to suffer for what they have done to others... but at the same time, in my personal belief, I know there is a special place where people like him go when they die, where they are forced to dress as maids and bend over every hour or so to take a large prickly pineapple straight up the arse.
Or, that MIGHT just be a movie... dont' quote me on that
Probably a dream.
Did you wake up with a smile on your face?
I watched a favourite episode of Futurama yesterday.
Heh Heh.
I bet Westboro Church would hate that episode.
Lol, actually, it's from the movie Lil Nicki - it's stupid, but in a funny way (but yeah, pretty stupid)
Nothing wrong with watching something stupid occasionally.
It's the people who listen to trash all the time that have the problem.
Maybe the originator of this awful church realised, approaching death, that some of his beliefs were wrong.
It's the people who listen to trash all the time that have the problem.
Maybe the originator of this awful church realised, approaching death, that some of his beliefs were wrong.
That's a false equivocation. This piece of human garbage picketed the funerals of people who did nothing wrong, and hurt innocent families. Nothing we say or do nkw can compare to what he and his foul offspring have done. We're already better than them.
Agreed - and we should keep it that way.
Progress Interrupted ... Repeatedly
You would think, wouldn't you? The jab here, of course, is that black skin apparently must equal civil rights advocacy, though we don't really need to go down that route as it isn't productive
Rather, I think it would be enough to say that, maybe, if Huey P. Newton had lived ....
In truth, the black resistance to homosexuality makes as much sense as a black embrace of homosexuality. On a cultural scale, the question of any group of people in this context would look to what luxury they have of considering such issues. At least until the end of the twentieth century, there has been enough institutional pressure on blacks to keep them focused on themselves. Imagine everyone is asking you why you didn't help your best friend while he was beat up by three guys in the parking lot outside a strip club. Perhaps you might think the answer that you were in the middle of getting your own ass beaten by another three would be obvious.
Notes:
Newton, Huey P. "The Women's Liberation and Gay Liberation Movements". August 15, 1970. HistoryIsAWeapon.com. March 21, 2014. http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/newtonq.html
Sorcerer said:
You would think, wouldn't you? The jab here, of course, is that black skin apparently must equal civil rights advocacy, though we don't really need to go down that route as it isn't productive
Rather, I think it would be enough to say that, maybe, if Huey P. Newton had lived ....
I do not remember our ever constituting any value that said that a revolutionary must say offensive things towards homosexuals, or that a revolutionary should make sure that women do not speak out about their own particular kind of oppression. As a matter of fact, it is just the opposite: we say that we recognize the women's right to be free. We have not said much about the homosexual at all, but we must relate to the homosexual movement because it is a real thing. And I know through reading, and through my life experience and observations that homosexuals are not given freedom and liberty by anyone in the society. They might be the most oppresed people in the society.
In truth, the black resistance to homosexuality makes as much sense as a black embrace of homosexuality. On a cultural scale, the question of any group of people in this context would look to what luxury they have of considering such issues. At least until the end of the twentieth century, there has been enough institutional pressure on blacks to keep them focused on themselves. Imagine everyone is asking you why you didn't help your best friend while he was beat up by three guys in the parking lot outside a strip club. Perhaps you might think the answer that you were in the middle of getting your own ass beaten by another three would be obvious.
We want to hit a homosexual in the mouth because we are afraid that we might be homosexual; and we want to hit the women or shut her up because we are afraid that she might castrate us, or take the nuts that we might not have to start with.
____________________—ibid
Notes:
Newton, Huey P. "The Women's Liberation and Gay Liberation Movements". August 15, 1970. HistoryIsAWeapon.com. March 21, 2014. http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/newtonq.html
Hmm, interesting, Tiassa. I looked at Wiki:
Quote:
"In a 2012 survey of 120,000 adults, African Americans were more likely to self-identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT) than other racial or ethnic groups in the United States. According to the data, 4.6% of African-Americans identify as LGBT, significantly higher than 3.4% of the population overall.[1]
Homosexuality is often seen as antithetical to being black in the African American community.[2][3][4][5] One of the main reasons for this is because of the black communities' associations with the church in the United States.[6][7][8][9][10][11] Many black advocacy groups have disputed that homophobia is more prevalent in the African American community than other groups as surveys have shown that their attitude towards homosexuality are similar to the rest of the population.[12]
Barack Obama made a statement to the African American community ""If we are honest with ourselves, we'll acknowledge that our own community has not always been true to King's vision of a beloved community," and then went on to say "We have scorned our gay brothers and sisters instead of embracing them." [13]
Some in the African American community still see AIDS as a gay disease and homophobia is one of the main barriers preventing better treatment for people in AIDS in the black community. The Article "AIDS still thought of as a gay disease in black America" stated "But the truth is this: while nearly 600,000 African Americans are living with HIV, and as many 30,000 newly infected each year, there is still within the black community one in five living with HIV and unaware of their infection; and, they are disproportionately heterosexuals. As long as we continue to think of HIV/AIDS as a gay disease, we'll not protect ourselves from this epidemic."
I didn't know that there are indications of higher gay orientation in the black community, though disputed. There's this link too:
http://thegrio.com/2012/05/21/the-historic-roots-of-homophobia-in-black-america/
Quote:
"While the African-Americans and LGBT communities have each experienced a legacy of oppression and a struggle for equality that shares some similarities, resentment has existed between the two groups. Some elements of the black community have resisted, even resented the comparison between the civil rights movement and the gay rights movement, viewing homosexuality as a lifestyle choice if not a sin. Meanwhile, voices from the white-dominated gay community have singled out black homophobia as a problem in American life.3
There are also some links saying it ain't so at all.
Quote:
"In a 2012 survey of 120,000 adults, African Americans were more likely to self-identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT) than other racial or ethnic groups in the United States. According to the data, 4.6% of African-Americans identify as LGBT, significantly higher than 3.4% of the population overall.[1]
Homosexuality is often seen as antithetical to being black in the African American community.[2][3][4][5] One of the main reasons for this is because of the black communities' associations with the church in the United States.[6][7][8][9][10][11] Many black advocacy groups have disputed that homophobia is more prevalent in the African American community than other groups as surveys have shown that their attitude towards homosexuality are similar to the rest of the population.[12]
Barack Obama made a statement to the African American community ""If we are honest with ourselves, we'll acknowledge that our own community has not always been true to King's vision of a beloved community," and then went on to say "We have scorned our gay brothers and sisters instead of embracing them." [13]
Some in the African American community still see AIDS as a gay disease and homophobia is one of the main barriers preventing better treatment for people in AIDS in the black community. The Article "AIDS still thought of as a gay disease in black America" stated "But the truth is this: while nearly 600,000 African Americans are living with HIV, and as many 30,000 newly infected each year, there is still within the black community one in five living with HIV and unaware of their infection; and, they are disproportionately heterosexuals. As long as we continue to think of HIV/AIDS as a gay disease, we'll not protect ourselves from this epidemic."
I didn't know that there are indications of higher gay orientation in the black community, though disputed. There's this link too:
http://thegrio.com/2012/05/21/the-historic-roots-of-homophobia-in-black-america/
Quote:
"While the African-Americans and LGBT communities have each experienced a legacy of oppression and a struggle for equality that shares some similarities, resentment has existed between the two groups. Some elements of the black community have resisted, even resented the comparison between the civil rights movement and the gay rights movement, viewing homosexuality as a lifestyle choice if not a sin. Meanwhile, voices from the white-dominated gay community have singled out black homophobia as a problem in American life.3
There are also some links saying it ain't so at all.
Paranoid nonsense. What Sorcerer is saying is correct: given the history of the Civil Rights movement among African-Americans, it stands to reason that they would be in favor of affording the same rights they sought to their gay brothers and sister. What has happened instead is the opposite.
Oh, so because blacks were (and still are, in many ways) oppressed, that they should be expected to seek the oppression of others?
That's horseshit.
Empathy seems to be the rarest human quality.
I continually see people weeping and wailing,
who then dance in the streets when it is the enemy's children being killed.
I continually see people weeping and wailing,
who then dance in the streets when it is the enemy's children being killed.
You're very good at choosing just a few words.
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
That seems to be what happened to Ian Paisley. The bastard actually managed to squeeze out a bit of truly Christian behaviour at the end of his life, after a lifetime of creating conflict based on hysterical prejudice. I am always touched by such things: it makes you feel that perhaps as death approaches there is a clarifying of thought that make some people realise they have only one more shot at being remembered as a force for good. The deathbed conversion, if you like.