"Christians aren't perfect, only forgiven".
Ever heard this one?
Man is born degraded and tainted by the origional sin, yet through the miracle of salvation he is forgiven for his sins. God forgives man.
"Acts 13:37
But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
13:38
Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:*
13:39
And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses."
However, it strikes me (ouch) that Christians are not really forgiven by God, they've simply managed to do the reverse.
To forgive God. Think about it. You can't believe in God without hating the bastard. To believe in God, one believes that all the pain and misery in the world, was created by something that has the power to alleviate - nay, even to STOP it - and He doesn't.
All the unspeakable torments His followers subjected man to, all the children who died in agony from disease, all the cruelty and suffering that has for ever permeated the soul of man - and God, our creator, does nothing!&dagger
Now before Tony1 or Elkimlaw starts in on how man chose to suffer when Eve betrayed God for the Devil - bullshit. I don't see how an innocent child, victim of perhaps a partial birth abortion, could ever be held responsible for the disobedience of two humans.
We must hate God, if we believe in him.
But for those who do, hating God is not an option, psychologically or morally.
"Isaiah 45:9
Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou?"
How could one hate his maker, his God? How could one hate the Creator of his life?
And how could one not hate his God?
The obvious thing to do is to forgive God. And how to forgive God, but to make Him suffer?
You know where I am going with this, I presume. God entered the flesh and became man, and lived a life most virtuous and pure among men. Innocent as any man, He was condemned to die in one of the most horrible ways the human mind has devised, with the criminals.
Is it a simple fluke of iconography that the crucifixion is so often played out in Christian art? Or, as less charitable minds have suggested, is this simply repressed sadism?
I doubt it. John 3:16:
" For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
The crucifixion is central to Christianity, and I think it is not only because God loved us enough to enter the flesh and suffer at our hands, but because by hurting God, we become able to forgive Him.
Strange, even as an athiest, I find the idea of forgiving God and being accepted into His scheme to be - seductive. Not simply submitting to something so much more powerful than oneself after harming Him&Dagger - although that is, of course, a draw.
Righty-o, bloody Anne Rice and Memnoch. Any thoughts, or are you heartless bastards going to ignore my post?
(Note to Tiassa: Before you start ragging about how athiests are fighting the Western concept of God or whatever, yeah, I do realize that not all God's are regarded as omnipotent. However, for purposes of simplicity, I'm referring to the Christian God as God. Nifty, eh?)
*Ignore the contradiction between this and Luke 12:10, if you please.
&dagger: Quit looking at me like that, I don't believe any of this any more than you do.
&Dagger: Yes, I know what this sounds like.
Ever heard this one?
Man is born degraded and tainted by the origional sin, yet through the miracle of salvation he is forgiven for his sins. God forgives man.
"Acts 13:37
But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
13:38
Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:*
13:39
And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses."
However, it strikes me (ouch) that Christians are not really forgiven by God, they've simply managed to do the reverse.
To forgive God. Think about it. You can't believe in God without hating the bastard. To believe in God, one believes that all the pain and misery in the world, was created by something that has the power to alleviate - nay, even to STOP it - and He doesn't.
All the unspeakable torments His followers subjected man to, all the children who died in agony from disease, all the cruelty and suffering that has for ever permeated the soul of man - and God, our creator, does nothing!&dagger
Now before Tony1 or Elkimlaw starts in on how man chose to suffer when Eve betrayed God for the Devil - bullshit. I don't see how an innocent child, victim of perhaps a partial birth abortion, could ever be held responsible for the disobedience of two humans.
We must hate God, if we believe in him.
But for those who do, hating God is not an option, psychologically or morally.
"Isaiah 45:9
Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou?"
How could one hate his maker, his God? How could one hate the Creator of his life?
And how could one not hate his God?
The obvious thing to do is to forgive God. And how to forgive God, but to make Him suffer?
You know where I am going with this, I presume. God entered the flesh and became man, and lived a life most virtuous and pure among men. Innocent as any man, He was condemned to die in one of the most horrible ways the human mind has devised, with the criminals.
Is it a simple fluke of iconography that the crucifixion is so often played out in Christian art? Or, as less charitable minds have suggested, is this simply repressed sadism?
I doubt it. John 3:16:
" For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
The crucifixion is central to Christianity, and I think it is not only because God loved us enough to enter the flesh and suffer at our hands, but because by hurting God, we become able to forgive Him.
Strange, even as an athiest, I find the idea of forgiving God and being accepted into His scheme to be - seductive. Not simply submitting to something so much more powerful than oneself after harming Him&Dagger - although that is, of course, a draw.
Righty-o, bloody Anne Rice and Memnoch. Any thoughts, or are you heartless bastards going to ignore my post?
(Note to Tiassa: Before you start ragging about how athiests are fighting the Western concept of God or whatever, yeah, I do realize that not all God's are regarded as omnipotent. However, for purposes of simplicity, I'm referring to the Christian God as God. Nifty, eh?)
*Ignore the contradiction between this and Luke 12:10, if you please.
&dagger: Quit looking at me like that, I don't believe any of this any more than you do.
&Dagger: Yes, I know what this sounds like.