Irrelevant
Cremo and Thompson are hardly responsible for establishing cyclic time within Asiatic culture ... or even its prominence within Eurocentric approximations of it
:shrug:
For theists who believe in evolution
- Thread starter jpappl
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Cremo and Thompson are hardly responsible for establishing cyclic time within Asiatic culture ... or even its prominence within Eurocentric approximations of it
:shrug:
alternative only in that it suggests time is cyclic as opposed to linear
such as?
Not sure how this is at odds with linear time or even what you suggest in the OP
Lg,
My statement isn't but his suggestions are. My point was that he is giving credence to these anomalies as if a wink wink but then doesn't put his foot in the door and say, I have evidence that refutes the linear time line. IOW, he can't and wants to act like he can but mainstream science won't hear it.
I am not saying don't look at anomalies, I am saying do the research and see if it really is one.
So far, I am finding that there is dis-information in the mis-information. If you want examples I will provide.
Here from your link:
He is not categorically asserting because he knows what that will mean. So instead he dances all around it and makes the suggestion.
He is also citing works that have been refuted, I mean I have more to look at here but the first one I did is basically full of it.
I will see what the others offer.
My statement isn't but his suggestions are. My point was that he is giving credence to these anomalies as if a wink wink but then doesn't put his foot in the door and say, I have evidence that refutes the linear time line. IOW, he can't and wants to act like he can but mainstream science won't hear it.
I am not saying don't look at anomalies, I am saying do the research and see if it really is one.
So far, I am finding that there is dis-information in the mis-information. If you want examples I will provide.
Here from your link:
He is not categorically asserting because he knows what that will mean. So instead he dances all around it and makes the suggestion.
He is also citing works that have been refuted, I mean I have more to look at here but the first one I did is basically full of it.
I will see what the others offer.
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LG,
But they are guilty of mis-information by not providing all of the details which would refute the claims.
For example here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klerksdorp_sphere
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/mom/spheres.html
But they are guilty of mis-information by not providing all of the details which would refute the claims.
For example here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klerksdorp_sphere
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/mom/spheres.html
This is your OP, yes?
What happened to all of the souls lost before your god enlightened us ?
If you want an explanation that can only be backed up by science (aka empiricism), you would have been better off with a question more along the lines of "what theistic claims stand the test of empiricism" and we could have taken it from there.
I'm not sure what all this has to do with the OP
What do Klerksdorp spheres have to do with cyclic time?
(All the stuff you are referencing are cremo et al criticisms of the archeological sciences)
So you believe God enlightened us?
hey j,
what about the absence of time altogether. i've heard scientists propose that time is an effect of the way we experience things, and not necessarily a real thing in and of itself. and they've proposed the concept of parallel universes, even to go so far as to say they're sure they exist, they just don't know much about them.
during an experience i had, a spirit told me "there is no time here". during and experience my husband had which was spiritual in nature, he was given the impression that everything is happening at once.
what about the absence of time altogether. i've heard scientists propose that time is an effect of the way we experience things, and not necessarily a real thing in and of itself. and they've proposed the concept of parallel universes, even to go so far as to say they're sure they exist, they just don't know much about them.
during an experience i had, a spirit told me "there is no time here". during and experience my husband had which was spiritual in nature, he was given the impression that everything is happening at once.
Hindus would have little problem with this. The souls reincarnated. Eventually systems developed by advanced souls that could help people speed up their unification with God.
You're missing my point. By using simply "theists" in the title and then asking a question blatantly meant for monotheistic Abrahamists (who are the only major religions that see themselves as the one and only path), you're conflating the two. Which is horrifically inaccurate.
Same as now.
Of course, not all of us are so enlightened. Let's not take too much credit here.
LG,
I did not expect any empirical evidence. You in fact are the one who offered the link. In which the writer is claiming that there is evidence to support the idea of us being more advanced at various times in the past, IE cyclical instead of linear.
Well your built in position is one that at least attempts to answer my question. Your position as I understand it does not have a more recent enlightenment episode because this has been going on since the beginning of time.
The OP is really directed at those who make the claim the enlightenment came more recently. IE Christians and Muslims.
Yet if they also believe we evolved then how do they answer for the millions of years we evolved without knowing the way.
However, with your claim, we can look for evidence that supports or does not support the position. Which is what the link has provided and which I am finding flaws with. I will keep researching to see if I find something that is of intrique.
I did not expect any empirical evidence. You in fact are the one who offered the link. In which the writer is claiming that there is evidence to support the idea of us being more advanced at various times in the past, IE cyclical instead of linear.
Well your built in position is one that at least attempts to answer my question. Your position as I understand it does not have a more recent enlightenment episode because this has been going on since the beginning of time.
The OP is really directed at those who make the claim the enlightenment came more recently. IE Christians and Muslims.
Yet if they also believe we evolved then how do they answer for the millions of years we evolved without knowing the way.
However, with your claim, we can look for evidence that supports or does not support the position. Which is what the link has provided and which I am finding flaws with. I will keep researching to see if I find something that is of intrique.
Me, no.
I am using the word enlightened for the moment that a belief in a specific god was presented.
So whether you are a christian, muslim of other, before that moment, nobody was enlightened in that sense.
I do agree that they get a pass regarding the OP.
You're correct I did miss your point. I should have clarified it better.
I was thinking that all religions arose at some point. At that moment there was a path created, but until that moment there was no path or a different one. So I considered all religions in that equation. But they don't all claim eternity in a hell for not following orders.
You are correct in that my question is really steered towards those who claim that if you don't follow their only way then your soul is at risk. IE the monotheistic Abrahamists.
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I mean, it's sorta understandable. Monotheism, particularly Abrahamism, has been the norm for the West for a long time. It is what most people have experience with; and it is probably going to be the usual thing in debate when a theist and atheist collide.
In regards to your original question: Christians, or at least the largest organisations of them, tend to believe that those that died before God or Christ came to the world and initiated the Abrahamic faith, as well as those who were born in areas that would render introduction to Abrahamism impossible, are given a free pass. Since neither group had the opportunity to be saved directly. Of course, by "free pass", it's meant more like "sent to purgatory or limbo for a bit".
In regards to your original question: Christians, or at least the largest organisations of them, tend to believe that those that died before God or Christ came to the world and initiated the Abrahamic faith, as well as those who were born in areas that would render introduction to Abrahamism impossible, are given a free pass. Since neither group had the opportunity to be saved directly. Of course, by "free pass", it's meant more like "sent to purgatory or limbo for a bit".
the link was offered more as a general introduction to the notion of cyclic time ... as opposed to an introduction to a variety of arguments supporting the evidence for it
I guess that depends on what you mean by recent
according to vedic notions, eras of enlightenment happen at regular intervals since its the nature of human society to misplace bonafide religious principles (the last major period of enlightenment being 500 years ago)
why speak of millions of years, one can experience millions of life times in such a state within such a model
cremo's work tends to suggest that archeological science is one of the most institutionalized - ie if findings don't fit in with pre-existing models, it can be dangerous for one's career. The example that comes most easily to mind is that of the young american (I think?) who was effectively ousted from the discipline due to being involved in finding something that radically stood outside of current models of human history (from what I remember, the only counter offered on pro-evolution/atheist hate-sites being that she wasn't the one who should be really credited for the find or there were some delays in the posting of her report or something (in an attempt to paint her up as some career thirsty ladder climber or something) ... and nothing about why the claims were never followed up (or even published in journals, which would arguably be the means to have something followed up)
I''ll try find the link later
"For theists who believe in evolution"
Theists of the Hindu persuasion do beleive in evolution...
Theists of the Hindu persuasion do beleive in evolution...
Great.
Apparently some don't: from wiki
"Most Hindu schools do not regard the scriptural creation myth as a literal truth, and often the creation stories themselves do not go into specific detail, thus leaving open the possibility of incorporating at least some theories in support of evolution. Some Hindus find support for, or foreshadowing of evolutionary ideas in scriptures, namely the Vedas.[2] An exception to this acceptance is the International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON), which includes several members who actively oppose "Darwinism" and the modern evolutionary synthesis.[3]"
Some do, some dont. Point is not all theists believe the same..