For the theists...Why do you believe?

[RoyLennigan]

the best way is to study yourself.

what is the self without the body? what is the being without the environment? what is the environment without the planet? without the sun? without our galaxy?

the universe is just an extension of you; you cannot live without everything around you. you can live without certain things, or if you have the right things, but you will not be the same as you are right now, at this moment. in fact, 'you' are always changing; you are a part of the universe as it is a part of you. you are like a filter through which energy passes, and the energy filtered into you remains as your memories.

 

[mountainhare]

ggazoo:

Another striking evidence of divine inspiration is found in the fact that many of the principles of modern science were recorded as facts of nature in the Bible long before scientist confirmed them experimentally. A sampling of these would include:

• Roundness of the earth (Isaiah 40:22)
• Almost infinite extent of the sidereal universe (Isaiah 55:9)
• Law of conservation of mass and energy (II Peter 3:7)
• Hydrologic cycle (Ecclesiastes 1:7)
• Vast number of stars (Jeremiah 33:22)
• Law of increasing entropy (Psalm 102:25-27)
• Paramount importance of blood in life processes (Leviticus 17:11)
• Atmospheric circulation (Ecclesiastes 1:6)
• Gravitational field (Job 26:7)
• and many others.

LOLLERSKATES!

 

[c7ityi_]

what is the self without the body?

the absolute reality (nothing-everything)

the universe is just an extension of you; you cannot live without everything around you.

a person and a body can't... but i can...

 

[ggazoo]

You mean like the site you lifted that from:

http://www.gmau.org/ThinkingCaps/tcap33.htm

That's the only comment you have? But yeah sorry, forgot to give credit.

 

[(Q)]

That's the only comment you have? But yeah sorry, forgot to give credit.

Your intent was NOT to give credit where credit was due since you slightly manipulated the copy/paste to make it appear as if you wrote it.

I at least had a comment to make, you did not.

 

[ggazoo]

Your intent was NOT to give credit where credit was due since you slightly manipulated the copy/paste to make it appear as if you wrote it.

I at least had a comment to make, you did not.

No, not's not the case the all - I edited it because some parts were a little preachy. And, I just forgot the link, it was late last night. Geesh.

 

[RoyLennigan]

the absolute reality (nothing-everything)

a person and a body can't... but i can...

but 'you' are a state of being--constantly changing based on what goes through your physical being. without the body, you are still that same energy that would have fueled 'you' in the body, but that you is just energy, it is nothing like the 'you' in a body. it is a state of being in which you have no control over your actions because you just are. you do not think, you know. you do not take action, you are action. so you can call it 'you' because it is the fuel of your psyche, but it is not anywhere close to the 'you' that you feel now.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

SUMMARY:

I accept the existence of 'God' as truth because:

ggazoo - I want to be reunited with a dead relative (selfishness)
Naat - It's easy (laziness)
c7ityi_ - I'm a freakin' lunatic (lunacy)

 

[VitalOne]

I believe in God because I believe we are God, this is our reality, God is our true self, within us all. Good and Evil exists because good and evil exists within us, it is our own self. Whatever you focus on, you become, therefore worshipping or focusing on God will cause you attain the nature of God or your true self. Personal experiences of mine confirm all these findings. This is the conclusion I've come to, and why I believe in the one, formless God.

 

[SnakeLord]

So in summary:

You don't believe in 'god' at all, just yourself?

Sheesh, you certainly went the long way round in saying it.

 

[c7ityi_]

c7ityi_ - I'm a freakin' lunatic (lunacy)

but i don't even believe in god, i only believe in myself. religions call our higher self god, in that sense, he exists, but.... um... he's not really what people think "he" is!!

c7ityi_ - I'm a freakin' lunatic (lunacy)

you're so mean!!!!!1

but.. i kinda like the word lunacy... because it reminds of lunar...

 

[Crunchy Cat]

but i don't even believe in god, i only believe in myself. religions call our higher self god, in that sense, he exists, but.... um... he's not really what people think "he" is!!

Unless I've mis-interpreted your messages in the past, I've seen you claim that you & we are immportal, omnipresent, and omnipotent life forms. Am I off here?

I sort of agree with what you said. In the end, people want to have a deep relationship with something whom is the highest authority, the most caring, the most understanding, etc... and that entity they have the relationship with (if successful) are themselves. Many don't realize this and stick a proxy concept called 'God' in between there. It's the reason that if you attack 'God' in the presence of believers, that they will invariably become hostile as that's a direct attack on them.

Consquently, why would you believe in the existince of yourself? You *know* you exist (you are irrefutable evidence).

you're so mean!!!!!1

but.. i kinda like the word lunacy... because it reminds of lunar...

As I recall, in the Harry Potter stories, there was some student named Luna Lovegood. She was way out there and got hammered with a nickname similar to Looney.

 

[c7ityi_]

Unless I've mis-interpreted your messages in the past, I've seen you claim that you & we are immportal, omnipresent, and omnipotent life forms. Am I off here?

there is an "i am" in all of us... and that's what is omnipresent and immortal (dunno about -omnipotent-, but at least "we" "created" the universe). our true being is being/existence, and existence/life is omnipresent and immortal.

i've said it a million times but.. there is only one being, one self... in infinite different bodies.

our bodies and persons are mortal of course, but the feeling of "i am" never dies. god said to moses (although it was actually just moses who realized): i am.

Consquently, why would you believe in the existince of yourself? You *know* you exist (you are irrefutable evidence).

yeah, i don't have to believe.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

"i am" in all of us... is omnipresent and immortal...
..."we" "created" the universe.
...our true being is being/existence, and existence/life is omnipresent and immortal.
...there is only one being, one self... in infinite different bodies.
...the feeling of "i am" never dies.

If I am understanding this correctly, you're asserting that only one unique entity exists, it created the universe, and we (humans) are shards of that entity's consciousness?

 

[ggazoo]

ggazoo:

LOLLERSKATES!

Please explain?

 

[Jan Ardena]

I want to hear why you believe in a god(s). Also give me some arguements as to why people should believe.

a) Because it is quite obvious that there is gigantic intelligence at work.
b) People should believe if they choose to try and use their intelligence over the senses, as opposed to using their senses to dictate their intelligence.

Jan.

 

[SnakeLord]

there is an "i am" in all of us... and that's what is omnipresent and immortal (dunno about -omnipotent-, but at least "we" "created" the universe). our true being is being/existence, and existence/life is omnipresent and immortal.

Back to talking your typical gobshite.

--------------

a) Because it is quite obvious that there is gigantic intelligence at work.

Only to the uneducated.

b) People should believe if they choose to try and use their intelligence over the senses, as opposed to using their senses to dictate their intelligence

Wouldn't the intelligent decide that - given the complete lack of evidence - that this supposed 'god' could for all anyone knows be a universe-farting invisible mushroom? What you're left with, (to the intelligent), is a bunch of people going round trying to sell belief in something that they cannot even remotely substantiate other than to say; "well, things look complex" - which is nothing but ignorance in the first place, without giving the idiocy of their beliefs a moments thought. The intelligent would have no place but to rely on what "knowledge" they have, what they 'do know', not what they want to be true on the basis of their lack of understanding.

 

[KennyJC]

a) Because it is quite obvious that there is gigantic intelligence at work.

This is odd. You appear to be able to use common sense when talking about this God of yours, but are completely devoid of it when confronted with the fossil record.

If the universe is without creation through intelligent reasoning, then would you still call this release of energy a creation from an intelligent living God? Or are you happy to call anything 'God' wether it be a superiour intelligence or not?

Lets look at the classic notion of the creation of humans:

1. Humans were directly made by God - This suggests intelligent reasoning
2. Humans evolved over billions of years beginning with the organic compounds spewed out into space by giant stars - This suggests a creation of sorts, but apparently without intelligent reasoning.

So my above example also applies for the creation of the universe itself - Does it have intelligent reasoning, or is it a simple burst of energy with no intelligent creation required?

So, if there is a 'creation' by something that is clearly not a living intelligent creator, would you still call this God?

b) People should believe if they choose to try and use their intelligence over the senses, as opposed to using their senses to dictate their intelligence.

Neither our senses OR intelligence - alone or together - are anything near competent enough to figure out wether there is a sky fairy or not... Superstition on the other hand is all that is required to call for the existence of a sky fairy.

 

[Jan Ardena]

KennyJC,

This is odd. You appear to be able to use common sense when talking about this God of yours, but are completely devoid of it when confronted with the fossil record.

He's not only my God, He is yours also, even though you deny Him.


"The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils." (Gould, Stephen Jay [Professor of Zoology and Geology, Harvard University, USA],

If the universe is without creation through intelligent reasoning, then would you still call this release of energy a creation from an intelligent living God?

"Creation" implies a "creator", a creator must be intelligent.
What would compell this "release of energy" to create the splendour we see today?

Lets look at the classic notion of the creation of humans:

1. Humans were directly made by God - This suggests intelligent reasoning
2. Humans evolved over billions of years beginning with the organic compounds spewed out into space by giant stars - This suggests a creation of sorts, but apparently without intelligent reasoning.

So my above example also applies for the creation of the universe itself - Does it have intelligent reasoning, or is it a simple burst of energy with no intelligent creation required?

The question was "why do I believe in God", my answer was, "because it is obvious there is intelligence behind the phenomena. Whether or not you want to call it God, you also believe the universe has intelligence behind it. You haven't said so, you will probably deny it, or come with some whack argument, but I know you feel the same way I do.

So, if there is a 'creation' by something that is clearly not a living intelligent creator, would you still call this God?

Creation = creator = intelligence.
Whether we call it God or nature, is a different matter.

Neither our senses OR intelligence - alone or together - are anything near competent enough to figure out wether there is a sky fairy or not... Superstition on the other hand is all that is required to call for the existence of a sky fairy.

Why do you try and debase God by the term "sky fairy"?
And how do you know good, human intelligence is not adequate to understand that God exists?

Jan.