FBI spies in U.S. Mosques?

[clusteringflux]

The thing is, we have no way of knowing if the FBI was engaged in a legitimate investigation, or if they were just illegally spying on mosques just because they are mosques.

Yes, because that's what a few Muslim groups are claiming so it could be true.

Now ask yourself, who are you going to believe, the guy who's doing everything in his power to keep a dirty bomb from going off in your back yard or the jack wad who's friends keep getting busted supporting violent anti-American groups?

That's a no brainer to me. But perhaps you're right, they should start busting everyone's balls equally. Add a couple hundred billion to their budget and they can crawl up the ass of every Conservative Christian, socialist college professor and disgruntled teen in the country.

 

[nietzschefan]

Canadian RCMP did this and that's how they caught the Toronto Plot.

It's legal, here.

 

[spidergoat]

Yes, because that's what a few Muslim groups are claiming so it could be true.

Now ask yourself, who are you going to believe, the guy who's doing everything in his power to keep a dirty bomb from going off in your back yard or the jack wad who's friends keep getting busted supporting violent anti-American groups?

That's a no brainer to me. But perhaps you're right, they should start busting everyone's balls equally. Add a couple hundred billion to their budget and they can crawl up the ass of every Conservative Christian, socialist college professor and disgruntled teen in the country.

I never said it would be OK if it were done across the board. That would also be wrong. We cannot use the excuse of terrorism to erode our rights, there are ways to legally investigate such things. I'm only saying that trolling for terrorist activity in mosques with no prior probable cause is against our right to assemble, as well as our right to practice religion (or no religion) without intimidation.

 

[clusteringflux]

I never said it would be OK if it were done across the board. That would also be wrong. We cannot use the excuse of terrorism to erode our rights, there are ways to legally investigate such things. I'm only saying that trolling for terrorist activity in mosques with no prior probable cause is against our right to assemble, as well as our right to practice religion (or no religion) without intimidation.

I agree, if that's in fact what's being done. As you noted we have no way of knowing but hearsay.
My first impulse is to trust the people I'm paying to protect me. Not always but in this case anyhow.And If you read the link, the subject that was allegedly "threatened" has questionable ties.

The second part of my post was a dig at the PC mindset that's destroying logical implementation of government resources in places like the UK. That which the American left seems to really have a fancy for.

 

[Orleander]

....The FBI also monitors Christian organizations, all governments monitor various groups. Some dont let them exist at all, that is the difference.

yeah, I was thinking of Fred Phelps and bigamist communities

 

[S.A.M.]

Some of the leaders of these Muslim organisations and mosques should take lessons from the Jews:

To Whom It May Concern,

Our Congregation shares in rejecting wholeheartedly the odious and repugnant remarks made at an Americans For A Safe Israel (AFSI) event that took place at our Synagogue on Wednesday March 18, 2009. On a personal level, I am horrified at such hateful statements, and I have made this clear to the organization. We did not sponsor or support that event, and neither I nor any member of our congregational staff was present. While the use of the premises has always been available on a non-discriminatory basis, the nature of the remarks made disqualifies the AFSI from any further use of the space.

Rabbi Elie Abadie, M.D.

http://www.jstreet.org/blog/?p=250

 

[Baron Max]

Some of the leaders of these Muslim organisations and mosques should take lessons from the Jews

Wait!! Wait!! Oh, my god, ....everyone..... please look at what SAM said!!! Can y'all believe it???

Baron Max

 

[S.A.M.]

Yeah? And what happens if the FBI tried that approach only to be met with vehemently uncooperative Muslims? The FBI will get the information they need one way or another.
Oh and you can bet your Muslim ass sam that the FBI is doing the same shit with the KKK and white supremacist groups. They will do that to any group they think has the potential to cause trouble.

Why would the Muslims be uncooperative? Do you think terrorist attacks in the US would distinguish between their children and someone else's?

My lifelong friend worked in WTC. By 10 minutes, 10 minutes!!! she missed being a victim.

 

[Baron Max]

Do you think terrorist attacks in the US would distinguish between their children and someone else's?

Well, the Muslim terrorist don't worry about that in any of the other attacks in Muslim nations, why would they care in the USA? Muslim terrorists kill more Muslims than any other race/nationality/creed/religion/anything else!

Did you "life-long friend" have advanced warnings of the Twin Towers?

Baron Max

 

[S.A.M.]

Well, the Muslim terrorist don't worry about that in any of the other attacks in Muslim nations, why would they care in the USA? Muslim terrorists kill more Muslims than any other race/nationality/creed/religion/anything else!

Not really, the others don't count, remember?

Did you "life-long friend" have advanced warnings of the Twin Towers?

Baron Max

I'll ask her. Hopefully she'll remember I saw her in diapers. Nah she's just one of those not so morning people.

 

[Baron Max]

Not really, the others don't count, remember?

Huh? What others?

SAM, are you sick today or something? You're either sick or hungover or something ....your messages are just all over the place with hardly any coherence at all.

No, I'm not worried about you, I'm just wanting some advance warning so I can celebrate if you're really sick.

Baron Max

 

[DiamondHearts]

Yes, it is illegal according to American law and international civil rights. Though I'm sure you will find the FBI/CIA committing any actions which directly oppose the concepts of freedom, democracy, and fraternity, which the US constantly tells the entire world.

Most of these FBI people are fairly easy to spot. They are agent provocateurs. These agents look for angry or disenfranchised youths to gain information and eventually put them behind bars. The problem with this strategy is that it is 'entrapment,' which we all know is illegal according to US law.

This tactic has been employed countless times by fascist regimes and dictatorships, and societies sinking into fascism like the US.

This same tactic was used against the Japanese in the US, Black Americans during the civil rights movement, the Jews in Germany, and countless other minority groups in eras where fascism flourished and reason was dissipated.

Obviously, it has the opposite effect of winning hearts and minds, and forces organizations to lead to noncooperation, as in Nazi Germany.

 

[S.A.M.]

You may be right, but Muslim leaders are pretty clueless when it comes to playing politics.

 

[leopold]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/03/20/fbi.muslim.groups/index.html
Not that I would be totally 100% against this per se, but if this is true about what the FBI is doing, is it even legal?


Uh guys, threatening to cease working with the FBI, yeah that will definitely keep them off your back and not put anymore pressure on you.

why post this stuff about muslim mosques when the FBI infiltrates all sorts of questionable activities?
any type of demonstration for example.

and yes, it's legal.

 

[mikenostic]

I don't follow your analogy. If you are being intimidated by the FBI, you will not feel free to practice your religion. Also, extremists tend to break off from mosques

Unless they get too chicken shit to fight coalition forces (abroad), then a mosque is the first thing they hide in.
They wouldn't be hiding in a mosque over here. The authorities would have no problem going in there and getting them.

since most members aren't extreme. I heard this on an NPR story about a recent Somali suicide bomber who was active in a Minnesota mosque.

Yeah and you know damn well that if the feds had information like that, they'd be all over that mosque/area.

 

[mikenostic]

why post this stuff about muslim mosques when the FBI infiltrates all sorts of questionable activities?
any type of demonstration for example.

Ask CNN. They are the orginal posters of the article.

and yes, it's legal.

Then if it's legal, those clerics don't really have much grounds to complain.

 

[milkweed]

Yes, it is illegal according to American law and international civil rights.

Wrong. From the FBI down to the sheriff of Mayberry, law enforcement can attend any open/public meeting/gathering and document information.

Most of these FBI people are fairly easy to spot. They are agent provocateurs. These agents look for angry or disenfranchised youths to gain information and eventually put them behind bars. The problem with this strategy is that it is 'entrapment,' which we all know is illegal according to US law.

Wrong again. Think police stings with undercover hookers nailing Johns.

This tactic has been employed countless times by fascist regimes and dictatorships, and societies sinking into fascism like the US.

This tactic has been used to bring down mafia, drug runners, human trafficing, outlaw biker gangs, inner city gangs, and all sorts of illegal activities.

"Niazi, a member of the Islamic Center of Irvine, told CAIR his arrest was retaliation for his refusal, the release said."

"Niazi, 34, was indicted last month on charges of perjury, procuring naturalization unlawfully, using a passport procured by fraud and making false statements. A search warrant for Niazi's Tustin, California, home said Niazi became a naturalized citizen in 2004 and made false statements about his past aliases and international travel.

He also made false statements about contact with his brother-in-law Amin ul-Haq, the indictment said.

An FBI agent said in open court that Niazi also had discussed terrorist plots with an undercover informant, according to media reports. Niazi has pleaded not guilty to the charges against him."

The Feds made him an offer to Roll over/snitch on others and he refused. That was his right. Now hes going through the legal system.

And if found guilty, once hes done his time, its off to the INS for deportation. Buh bye.

 

[leopold]

Ask CNN. They are the orginal posters of the article.

i just find it odd that this is said about muslim mosques like its some kind of bias on the part of the FBI.
like i said before, the FBI has its fingers up the butt of practically every organization imaginable.

Then if it's legal, those clerics don't really have much grounds to complain.

the only way it would be illegal is if the FBI man suggested some type of illegal activity.

 

[spidergoat]

Wrong. From the FBI down to the sheriff of Mayberry, law enforcement can attend any open/public meeting/gathering and document information.

That has only been true for the FBI since John Fucking Ashcroft loosened restrictions on such previously illegal spying.

Under the current surveillance guidelines, the F.B.I. cannot send undercover agents to investigate groups that gather at places like mosques or churches unless investigators first find probable cause, or evidence leading them to believe that someone in the group may have broken the law. Full investigations of this sort cannot take place without the attorney general's consent.​

 

[mikenostic]

i just find it odd that this is said about muslim mosques like its some kind of bias on the part of the FBI.
like i said before, the FBI has its fingers up the butt of practically every organization imaginable.

I think this got a bit of publicity because of the ten Islamic groups that have threatened to cut ties with the FBI.
Just exactly what ties do they have with the FBI?
And how exactly would cutting ties with the FBI be anymore beneficial to them? I'd bet the FBI would even dial up their ops a notch if those groups did that.