Experience Life people!!!

[TruthSeeker]

Barney_TRubble:
I don't know if you know (it seems that not), but our educational system in Brasil is good enough to encourage people to study even Quantum Physics. And we don't kill ourselves at school.

tablariddim:
With your quote, is easy to see that you are a materialist. It's why you seem to have NO life experience at all. If someone does something bad for you, if you respond with Love they will be ashamed. They won't think that you are stupid... they will think that THEY are stupid. If you pass Love to people, they will pass it back to you. If you have this conception of friendship is because you don't have friends at all. And if you have 500 friends, you can be certain that most of them don't even remember your name. It's impossible to keep so many friendships.

Blessings,
Nelson

 

[Barney_TRubble]

I was not saying your education system is not good Truthseeker... i wouldnt know one way or the other.

I was saying that if you believe everything they teach you at school (ANY school) then you are, in my opinion, a fool. If you read a book and take it as truth, you are a fool. if you believe anything they teach you at religious institututions, you are a fool.
If you believe what the media tells you, you are a fool.

do you honestly think that what they taught you in Brazil is any closer to the truth than what they taught american children?

 

[TruthSeeker]

I agree with you... in part.

I don't agree that to believe in Religion is foolishness... Religion and Science are just two sides of the same coin (the Truth). The difficulty here, is that they are completely opposites. It's why most people think that one is right and the other wrong (there are many religious people that don't believe in Science!).

About what has been taugh in my school, my parents (mainly my grandmother) told me about those years... when people had to come back to home before 6:00 pm otherwise they would be thought as Comunists and could be killed... My grandmother told me about it, and she is completely sane (much more than some people around...).

Blessings,
Nelson

 

[tablariddim]

No life experience?

Truthseeker,

I speak with 50 years of life experiences, as somebody who has put up and looked after sick and dying people in my home at a time when others had been in a better position to do so, as somebody who has given thousands of pounds to 'friends', so that they avoided being thrown on the street when they mismanaged their business and the shit caught up with them, I never even asked for my money back but they never respected that and were quick to forget our friendship, love and compassion as soon as they found the right opportunity. Experience as somebody who has given thousands of pounds to help a nephew get out of stupidly accumulated debts who has stupidly accumulated even more debts now. As somebody who has given thousands of pounds for a niece to go study and make a future for herself only to cock it up and then lie to me, show me counterfeit diplomas and the like, not only that but her parents were in on the lie also because of their stupid pride! As somebody who gave his friend one thousand pounds to pay a debt and avoid having to sell his beloved collection of tropical fish and aquarium. As somebody who has helped his family and parents financially and continues to do so. You think I haven't LOVED?

I have loved, always wanted to love, but love is an illussion a fleeting passion--people love you when they need you and the more soft and loving you are the more they take you for a c**t! But I do love my wife of 30 years because her love for me is real and genuine. And I still love my few remaining friends to varying degrees, but I'd be loathe to sacrifice anything for most of them nowadays (half a dozen times bitten--two dozen times shy!). No you are wrong my friend.

You are obviously at a self delusional point in your life where you think that anything that sounds idealistic, compassionate and nice (Jesus, Celestine Vision, Tao etc) is real and true and can really change the world for the better. Sorry to dissapoint you but philosophies and fairy tales such as the bible, Celestine claptrap etc. are designed so that a few can gain power and profit from the weak and ignorant. Religions are used by governments as political tools to rule religiously brain washed subjects. All that Celestine, new age, self-growth stuff is mass marketed to people who are dissatisfied with their selves, their life, their world whatever and who maybe have taken a few too many drugs during their lives--or perhaps not enough drugs--and are searching for some meaning to it all. They won't change nothing just watch! But they'll make a few authors and seminar talkers very rich indeed.

You talk about loving your enemies, but who are your enemies? The IRS? The rude shop assistant? Some ancient traditional enemy of your country, religion, class or race? To love or to hate any of these impersonal entities doesn't really make any sense unless they're causing you actual, physical, grief or damage in which case each would have to be tried on its own merits, because you can't just blanket love everything and everyone and neither should you blanket hate. But, could you honestly love someone that raped your wife or daughter? That burnt your house down? That stole your life's savings? Or is it just a nice sounding idea? Try to love your enemies by all means but watch your back! And your front and above you and below you! For the rest of your life!

As far as my quote goes, well it's actually a cynical joke on my part! So don't believe everything you read or be so quick to judge. Yes money is important but I've already made mine with the sweat of my brow and am not particurlarly interested in it any more--it's just a means to an end. And I do believe that some of the best things in life are free (though nothing is really free, but then that's another whole thread) but I'm sure it's a sentiment that most people can actually relate to--it's actually lack of money in the material world at street level that causes people to be so nasty to each other in the first place! The pursuit of vast wealth to the cost of lives and the ecology by unscrupulous corporations and governments is again another issue and deserves its own thread.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Apologies

tablariddim,
If you read what I wrote, I'm sorry. I'm writing it better, I shouldn't have said that. If you didn't see, good. I don't want to hurt you.
I have many problems too... and sometimes they drive me crazy... and sometimes they make me say bad things...
I'm sorry if I hurt you.
I'll try to give you a better answer later...

Yours sincerely,
Nelson

Cris,
Please, edit your post too. I admit that you are right, but I don't want to hurt anyone. Perhaps he didn't see it, so, please rewrite it for him not to be hurt. Thanks to teach me a lesson.

Yours sincerely,
Nelson

 

[Cris]

Truthseeker,

I understand that you had many problems in your life (as everyone), but they are there to make you grow up! And they will be there until you accept them and try to learn with them! It's why I am here, teaching you and so many people. You bringing your problems just fulfill the profecie that I will help many people! You are just the first one.

I don’t know how furious Tablariddim will be at your post but I find your comment as the most self-righteous, presumptuous and offensive claim I have seen here for some time. How dare you! You foolish child. I have three teenage daughters and I know none of them would ever consider making such a stupid statement. You most clearly have not experienced much of real life yet, please don’t attempt to teach those of us who most certainly have lived and experienced.

I’ll remind you of one of your links on Taoism, perhaps you haven’t read it – here is the 2nd of three treasures –

The second treasure is humility, staying behind. Seeing that you are nothing, you allow all others to go ahead. You do not struggle for superiority.

Did you conveniently forget this?

Whatever respect I did have for you has just evaporated.

Cris

 

[TruthSeeker]

Thanks to remember...

Hey Cris...
I forgot about it...
Sometimes I talk too much...
I won't talk about profecies around here...

Blessings,
Nelson

 

[goofyfish]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
About what has been taugh in my school, my parents (mainly my grandmother) told me about those years... when people had to come back to home before 6:00 pm otherwise they would be thought as Comunists and could be killed... My grandmother told me about it, and she is completely sane.

No disrepect intended to your grandmother, but you start by implying you will address your formal education, and support it with reference to family stories? While your grandmother's account of events might be accurate, how does this support your claim that the "united states of america gave money to kill MILLIONS and MILLONS of people in MY COUNTRY, Brazil, in the 60's"?

And from the "little things that nag at me" department:

To Cris: Sorry about called you an american... I didn't mean to insult you... But you really behaves like one of them...

Follwed by:

Important To Americans: I'm not generalizing.

I'm sure.


Peace.

 

[wet1]

A little note...

The thread is called: Experience Life People!!!...Well, I am experiencing life in the U$ right now and I am not an american. I do have trouble with the mentality here and how everything 'works'. It is difficult to get used to this. I am used to a much more FREE life in the Netherlands.

I know it is of no importance to the rest of the posts here and it has nothing to do with killing or not killing, there is just a lot of contradiction involved in my life right now. And then I do have to agree with Truthseeker. The americans, that is most of them, should try a different view on 'things'.

All that money wich is involved in everything you do. All the screwing up by the government. I can't put it down in words quite well right now, it is just the FEELINg it is not right. Guess there could be some more understanding and compassion for eachother in the U$. No matter what the rest of you have to say. This is pure a personal meaning.

By the way, I would love to live in a Tree. Am a real Tree and Forest lover. And you can't even go out and walk in the Forest where you choose. It is surrounded by fences. I feel the U$ as a big prison cel...

Doesn't say it is all good and happy in the Netherlands!!

 

[TruthSeeker]

That's it!!!

Banshee said everything!! He is surely someone that experience life!! Good to see that there is someone in somewhere in the world that does it!!!!!

Blessings... ,
Nelson

 

[Cris]

Banshee,

The USA has extremes and everything in-between. I have met some of the most friendliest and kindest people in the world while living here, but I have also met some unpleasant types as well as the most obese, and the fittest.

The USA is very bureaucratic and the levels of censorship are very high compared to most of Europe. The outward puritanical face is a great pity.

But you cannot classify all Americans as one type. Depending what part of the USA you visit you may well perceive something very different each time. Where I live in Silicon Valley there is a vast multi-cultural society. This is a very pleasant and safe place to live. As for forests: I take a frequent 12-mile hike in the Big Basin redwood forest, which is about 40 minutes from my home. For most of that hike I may only see one or two people. There are vast open spaces here that you can enjoy, but you might need to avoid the tourist areas. The redwood national forests are superb and very peaceful since very little other life can survive among the redwoods; they take all the nutrient and moisture for themselves. I think you would like the redwoods.

The USA government appears to be corrupt to some extent and controlled by big businesses and private interests, and the legal, and medical systems are a real mess. In many senses America is a primitive society with some of the most aggressive and violent people in the world. But the vast majority of people here want to live happy and contented lives, just like everyone else in the world; it is just a very vocal few who stir things up for the rest.

Perhaps it would be safest to not judge everyone by the examples of just a few.

Which part of the USA are you visiting?

Take care
Cris

 

[thed]

Re: That's it!!!

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
Banshee said everything!! He is surely someone that experience life!! Good to see that there is someone in somewhere in the world that does it!!!!!

I get it. This is nothing about experiencing life and a lot about being anti-capitalist or anti-establishment. Turn your backs on corporate America and the mighty Dollar. Materialism is all Eviiilllll.

One problem though. It is market forces and consumer demand (capitalism if you will) that turned PC's from highly expensive office equipment to household items. Same for most goods. Without market forces and consumerism life would be the same as it was in the early 1900's, a rich few using the proletariat to make their lives easier. This is nothing to do with Communism and a lot to do with human behaviour.

Give me the modern day any day.

For the record, I'm a Brit in England.

 

[goofyfish]

TruthSeeker - It has become apparent you are going to avoid my inquirey regarding the validity of your statement regarding mass murder in your country. As I believe this is due to a complete lack of knowledge on the subject, and the formation of your opinions based on oral histories within your family, I have an idea.

Allow me to provide you with your premise as it might have been presented, and you do the legwork to supply supporting facts. This will give you valuable practice for future "discussions."

--------------------
During the Kennedy administration, the mission of the US-dominated Latin American military was shifted from "hemispheric defense" to "internal security" (which basically means war against your own population.)

The US has always tried to establish relations with the military in foreign countries, because that's one of the ways to overthrow a government that has gotten out of hand. That's how the basis was laid for military coups in Brazil in 1964, Indonesia in 1965, and Chile in 1973.
--------------------
***Disclaimer: the above is an example only and does not necessarily reflect an opinion of The Fish***

Ok. Go to it, Nelson!

Peace.

--- Edit: I hate when I misspell "necessary" ---

 

[wet1]

Cris...

You are right. There are friendly persons here in America, that is the reason I am here. I am with a very friendly person here. It is just the complete difference between the two countries, Netherlands and U$, what I mean. You have to go 40 minutes before you can visit a Forest. I am used to go into the Forest just like that, in 5 minutes, without paying money to walk there. We have to go by car to a place with Trees, a Forest if you want, and look for a place to walk in it without having to pay for it and to be alone. And than you still hear cars and other electronic noises.

Guess I just have to get used to the changes here. And the government really ticks me off, I can't help feeling that way. maybe it'll change, in time.

I am staying in the neighbourhood of New Orleans. Do you know it there a little? Tell me about it if you want...

 

[Cris]

Banshee,

But a 40 minute drive is local. But that drive twists and turns through the mountains – the journey is itself good fun. I guess I have become accustomed to the large distances here. But Big Basin is 18,000 acres, and 80 miles of trails, and once you are inside you do not hear any vehicles or any electronic noises – it is truly peaceful. Some of the more obscure trails you can hike nude (unofficially of course, and yes I like real freedom), and I have skinny dipped under the Berry Creek Falls. That was cold but after a strenuous hike it is good to cool off. I haven’t done that these last few years since that trail has become more popular. Here are a few views of BB (the photos do not do justice to reality) -

http://www.virtualparks.org/parks/bbrsp-text-list.html

But here is my local park (San Antonio Ranch); this is only 2100 acres. It is about a 5-minute drive away from my home and work. I try to visit every day for a 40-minute daily walk when it isn’t too hot or dark; it is time I started again this year. The wild turkeys are funny to watch and the wild deer are all over the place. Some of the trails take you very high where you can see most of the San Francisco Bay Area. There is a small farm in the park and every year the pig (sow) gives birth and every day I watch the piglets suckle and grow and play. Here is a link -

http://www.openspace.org/RANCHO.html

New Orleans: Sorry, I’ve not been there. In fact I have only seen parts of California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona and Washington State. Hmm – Washington was nice in the mountain trails – I think I found what I think were the best natural hot springs in the world. They weren’t too difficult to find, but lounging (nude again I’m afraid) in a hot spring 7000 feet up the side of a mountain looking at the snow covered peaks opposite was quite a nice experience.

If you look and are prepared to travel a little then the USA does have some of the most breath taking and glorious scenery in the world.

As for Americans: Well I’ve seen and met many Californians and I guess I have the same style, but most Americans tell me that Californians are not typical of the rest of the USA. So really I am no authority on the people. But the bunch here in central California is pretty nice.

You sound like you are here for longer than just a passing visit. How long will you be here?

My main experiences of the Netherlands are Amsterdam and Amstelveen, and those numerous trips were always for business, well, I used to lecture a lot. I never did see a forest.

Have fun
Cris

 

[wet1]

Wonderful pictures Cris. Wish I could go there...really wonderful. I love those places, am a real Forest and Nature lover. Perhaps I have to go there some time. For now I only can go to some places nearby where I live.

You certainly know where you have to go. I should travel 40 minutes to go there too, oh yes, more if it was necessarry. And you are right, there is beautiful Nature in the U$.

People around here are friendly too. It is just that I have to get used to the differences in the U$ and the Netherlands. And I really do have such troubles with the president and the government here in the U$. Don't know what it is. Bush felt wrong from the first time I saw his face, back in the Netherlands, on the television. The look in his eyes is so wrong, it makes me still shiver. I know it sounds weird, it is just my feeling, my observation of him. Guess I better not listen to much to what is going on right now.

I shall be in the states for much longer yes. So I better get myself together and learn to live here. If you only visited Amsterdam and Amstelveen in the Netherlands, then you don't find a Forest nearby. That are the big cities, no Forest around. There is a big park in the center of Amsterdam though, het Vondelpark.

The real Forests you can find in the neighbourhood of Utrecht and Arnhem and so on. You had bad luck there. Just visited the wrong places.

Well, I am experiencing life now in a different way and it is not so bad after all...

 

[TruthSeeker]

thed,
Why crimes exists? Because "everyone" want to be rich. And as many don't have absolutely nothing, everyone starts to fight with each other. This is capitalism. It's competition. Do you think a social-economic-political system based in competition can be peaceful and harmless?

goofyfish,
I have been taugh about the 60's in Brazil for years. Everyone knows about that. And the "US" (or Banshee's U$, which pictures this country so well...) says that they do everything to "protect" and to maintain "freedom". But which freedom is that, that make us have so much fear? Which freedom is that, that make us worry if there will be another terrorist attack? Remember the Black Market in Russia... We don't know if the terrorists have nuclear bombs...

Our governement have never got "out of hand". There wer never Socialism there. It was just an excuse to prevent our economy to expand. If you study our history, you will see that we have a quite good and expanding economy before the 60's. Our president, Getulio Vargas, created for example the "Petrobras", which is still the best in high-deph petroleum exploration in the ocean. Its technology is very advanced in this area, and it is the best company of petroleum exploration in the world. (And now U$ companies are trying to buy it... I'll talk about it later.)
When the U$ saw Getulio Vargas raising our minimum-salary in a rate of 100%, to improve the money circulation and make our country grow economically, the U$ immediatly said: They are communists.
Well, many other things happened then, too many to explain here. But this is how everything began.

What is happening now, since 2 years ago, is that they are trying to privatize Petrobras to put in the hands of the U$. But they (U$ companies) realized that if Petrobras is stable, they can't get it. What did they do? They caused accidents.
First, one accident in our bay, in my city. An accident that poluted all the bay and destroyed the lives of many fisherman, and destroyed wildlife too.
Second, something "accidently" exploded in one of our bases of exploration some kilometers in the ocean. The explosion was exactly in the only place that would made it sink. Coincidence?
Third, another base (this, terrestrial) exploded and poluted a river.

Than,the U$ companies started to say: They can't control it. They are not intelligent enough to work with this kind of technology. Let us have it.
There is a kind of repetition here. U$ want the Amazon Forest too. Imagine how many cures for diseases like Aids (which medicine would be REALLY expensive) could have there? Let's burn it and then get it!

I could talk hours here giving many examples like Royalties of important medicines, which should be avaiable for everyone, not only for rich people... But I have not very much time to do that. I have too much school work and I have to intrpret the Bible too.

Only one more example of U$ "humanitarism" (this one I learnt here, in Canada):
I don't remember when, but once there were some wars in the world. And there were two special ones. One in Ruanda, between two tribes, which killed 10000 innocent people per day, and other in Kwuait, which killed far less people. U$ though: Let's help someone to demonstrate "humanitarism". They helped Kwuait. Why? Because Kwuait has (or had) lots of petroleum, the "black gold".

I could give many other examples, but I don't have time in my life now. I think this is enough, anyways.

Blessings,
Nelson

 

[Cris]

Banshee,

And I really do have such troubles with the president and the government here in the U$. Don't know what it is. Bush felt wrong from the first time I saw his face, back in the Netherlands, on the television. The look in his eyes is so wrong, it makes me still shiver. I know it sounds weird, it is just my feeling, my observation of him. Guess I better not listen to much to what is going on right now.

Oh wow. Yes I feel exactly the same. There is something about the American psyche that I have yet to properly understand. A something that makes them elect someone like Bush. It is currently beyond my comprehension that someone so inappropriate could be put in a position of such power. And the ‘shivers’ oh yes. I watched every minute of the 2000 election farce and saw so clearly the corruption and injustice occurring before my eyes – unbelievable. I will continue to feel very uncomfortable all the time he is in power – that is frightening.

Take care nature lover.
Cris

 

[scilosopher]

Banshee you're curious about what's wrong with Bush:
http://www.bushorchimp.com/pics.html

(the pop up ads are an amusing comentary on americans though ... when did you move to America? I thought you mentioned plans to go to Amsterdam just the other day ... maybe I'm losing track of time though ...)

TruthSeeker,
Thank you for one of the most amusing threads I've ever seen.

Jesus emphasized forgiveness as much as love (whether the story is true or not there is great irony). You don't sound very forgiving. True Christians also don't worship false idols. It sounds like you have at least been browsing.

I'm only being antogonistic because you said you loved your enemies. I hope to be one. Based on how you treat most of the people on this thread I assume they must be your friends because you aren't being very loving. Or maybe mere acquaintances are the ones treated badly. Or is that saved for Americans alone?

America has serious issues. So does every country. They all do wrong at one time or another. Maybe we take the cake I'm no historian. It is certainly unfortunate that our government has decided it's place involves mucking around in everyone else's business. Especially since our government is motivated by business too often. Since the rich do have more clout here due to lobbying and higher voter turn out how can you even judge the average American by the actions of the government? Do you think good and evil is so clearly delineated by borders?

Do you think the world is simple? Don't spout crap about love and rejection of knowledge. An ignorant man cannot love that which is real they have chosen not to know its form.

Now give me a hug, I forgive you for your beliefs if you forgive me for mine ...

 

[goofyfish]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
It was just an excuse to prevent our economy to expand. If you study our history, you will see that we have a quite good and expanding economy before the 60's.

I don't need to study your history...

1937 - A previously democratic state ends with the establishment of a fascist model new state headed by Getulio Vargas as dictator.

1945 - The military takes control.

1951 - Getulio Vargas elected President.

1954 - Military officers again take control of the government and Vargas commits suicide in August of that year.

1955 - Juscelino Kubitschek becomes President and builds the new capital, Brasilia.

1960 - The government moves from Rio de Janeiro to Brasilia, while the project funded by borrowed money cripples the economy.

1961 - Janio da Silva Quadros becomes President. He believes that Brazil has to trade with all nations and works to increase trade with communist countries such as Cuba.

1961 - Joao Goulart succeeds Quadros after 7 months, when military leaders fear that Silva will open the doors for a communist takeover.

1964 - Troops force Goulart out of office and General Castel Branco takes over. Branco is given many powers by the military including the right to suspend the rights of citizens and he is succeeded by three other Generals through 1978.

In fact, during the late 1960's and early 1970s Brazil's economy flourishes after the military bans political as well as trade union activities. In 1974 the chief problem is the high cost of oil on the world market and in 1975 Brazil begins a program to reduce oil imports by substituting them with alcohol fuels.

1979 - General Joao Figueiredo becomes President and, challenged by high inflation rates, labor unrest and union strikes allows other political parties to form.

1985 - Military rule ends and a civilian President elected.

1986 - Brazilians elects a new congress as well as a state legislature and governors in the first nationwide general election... and so on and so on.

First, one accident in our bay, in my city. An accident that poluted all the bay and destroyed the lives of many fisherman, and destroyed wildlife too.
Second, something "accidently" exploded in one of our bases of exploration some kilometers in the ocean. The explosion was exactly in the only place that would made it sink. Coincidence?
Third, another base (this, terrestrial) exploded and poluted a river.

Ahhhh... a conspiracy theorist as well. Why am I not surprised?

Seventy-six posts and nothing to say. Just the rambling blathering of false assumptions, unrelated and unsupported statements, meaningless diagrams, and a mantra based upon inconvenient time constraints: "many other things happened then, too many to explain here," or "I could talk hours here giving many examples... But I have not very much time to do that."

I have no doubt that all of this goes over your head, and that my inability to communicate with you is the result of my being unable to receive your message of compassion. :bugeye:

Aim your jumbled response at others here. Perhaps they will be able to make some sense of it. I, however, am finished, as "I don't have time in my life now."

Peace.