But... was it ever chaotic in the first place? And can order arise from chaos or it is simply evolving and becoming more ordered?
Existence of god
- Thread starter shivansh
- Start date
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
I believe the BB itself was an inflationary epoch from a single mega-quantum event where all (zero state) universal energy emerged from a state of latency into a chaotic energetic event of unimaginable force. The "energetic expansion" did not answer or needed to answer to ordinary spacetime constants, which until then were mere latencies. They did not exist yet and therefore "inflation" was allowed (by default) to expand at greater than SOL. Only when this chaos (lasting about 10^-36) cooled down enough, the first elementary physical particles were able to emerge from the pure zero state energy into an distinct object which by their very properties were able to interact in accordance with the 4 fundamental forces.
Along with the creation of matter from energy, space and time and potentials (latent universal constants) emerged and the evolutionary dance began.
I do understand that at a greater level we encounter entropy (more chaos), but that does not concern us here. Our current state of the universe is deterministic to all events occurring in the present.
Yes. Except that if this order happened spontaneously, then perhaps it was there all along. It is sort of like saying that you can throw a whole bunch of sticks up in the air and they will fall in the exact places every time you do that. It is not "random" or "chaotic", there is an underlying pattern that naturally emerges and would have emerged with a 100% probability, otherwise the laws are not immutable.
I ask again - can order really arise from chaos?
Entropy is part of the order. Why do you think it is separate?
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Yes, I agree that order was there all along except only in latent potential form before it emerged along with spacetime and physical objects in this universe.
I don't believe you can throw a whole bunch of sticks up in the air and they will fall in the exact place every time. IMO, this is part of the probability function. We cannot do this with photons in the double slit experiment and it wouldn't work here. There are only probabilities, some of which have the potential for a 100% probability (the Implicate) to become reality.
I believe so. Is there a specific law which forbids chaos from becoming orderly, when certain physical properties are present?
True, it is part of the ultimate ordering of the universe, starting from the dynamic inflation of an infinitely small singularity containing all the potential energy of the universe, to a static infinitely large singularity, inflated to such size that existing energy slowly begins to dissipate and decays, robbing from the potential energy for causal action. A dead zone. A dead zone may be orderly but it is not causally dynamic.
Entropy plays a relatively small part at our level of existence. We get old and die. But in between we experience the most wonderous experience of self awareness, even if distorted or illusionary.
The OP asks about the existence of God. IMO there are as many aspiring gods as there are living species on earth. We are the god we see reflected in the mirror.
Maybe you are right. Maybe I am the one who is wrong for talking to atheists. There is still 5x more unknown mass-energy content in the universe then known matter (standard model). Maybe there are invisible/undetectable fields out there that naturally shape themselves to our neural network, our brains. Maybe these invisible/undetectable fields retain consciousness even when we die. The fact that they haven't been detected doesn't really mean anything. You're right spidergoat! Faith is still a beautiful and good thing to have.
Yes, and as we can see by your posts, it allows one to take their delusions to new heights of absurdity.
That is the world we live in now, and that is the world we're trying to change despite those unfeeling assholes wanting to keep it the same way.
There are those who actually do follow the teachings of Christ, they are usually nice people, but too few and far in between. Then, there are those who follow Christianity, they are the unfeeling assholes and the majority.
LOL. That shows incredible ignorance of the world around you, dude.
LOL. That shows incredible ignorance of people and how they behave.
LOL. That shows incredible ignorance of atheists.
LOL. That shows incredible ignorance of reality.
Those are just downright lies, we made no such statements. Of course, we understand that is how you operate, you must fabricate lies in order to defend your irrational beliefs, in other words, you sound just like a Christian. LOL.
LOL. So, now we're Nazis. And, it's us atheists who have cold hearts and have dispensed with human feelings. Ah, the hypocrisy. Hilarious.
Yes, that is a very good example of what an unfeeling asshole would say.
I'm not trying to be a dick and I don't want to offend anyone but I've seen good arguments in favor and against the existence of God from both parties but I've actually seen much more logical arguments AGAINST the existence of God.
For once the existence of pain and suffering in this world and irreversible death is a good point to make against the existence of God. Also the fact that prayers very often go unanswered.
Also the fact that no one ever made contact with the deceased and that no one ever came back from the dead can also be sign that God is not really there and that death is probably an irreversible state because it just shows that extra-ordinary miracles do not happen.
For once the existence of pain and suffering in this world and irreversible death is a good point to make against the existence of God. Also the fact that prayers very often go unanswered.
Also the fact that no one ever made contact with the deceased and that no one ever came back from the dead can also be sign that God is not really there and that death is probably an irreversible state because it just shows that extra-ordinary miracles do not happen.
China has lately experienced a few high-profile cases in which altruists were sued after their efforts did not succeed. So the law is partly to blame.
Dying 'good Samaritan' ignored by 20 people
I can't fault you in the least for your very honest observations. For my point of view, it's more about the hateful comments from atheists that deserve a response. I'm not ready to forgive them.
There is no video. There is no indication of who used cell phones to call the police. There is no indication of who had to get to a phone. The article said that one man bent down to move the man, and there was a pool of blood. Obviously, in the US, people do care.
A god that controls everyone is a monster, and a god that lets people do what they want and refuse to aid each other (and even purposefully hurt each other) is a monster, since the god should also be responsible for protecting everyone, while somehow letting people do what they want. So some people have nothing but a monster to believe in, there is no alternative in that dilemma they have created. Don't get me wrong, the fundamentalists have helped paint people into this corner from within which there is no logical belief system.
God Don't Cause Misery It's Some Fanatical Extremtist Worshipers
God don't kill people, it is some of the fanatical, extremist, God worshipers that cause undo misery.
Guns and drones don't cause misery unless assisted by humans.
Autos dont cause misery, except when their faulty or humans are behind the wheel.
Bridges don't cause misery, except when humans forget to maintain them.
Gravity don't cause misery, except when humans fail to acknowledge cosmic laws/principles.
Nuclear power planets dont kill people unless it falls within the realm of an accepted 'cost benifit analysis' as as assessed by some humans who benifit from the sales of nuke plants.
Comlexity dont cause people misery, it is simple minded people who don't understand the complexity, that causes misery.
Simplicity doesn't cause misery, it is the over complication of the simple that causes misery.
God don't kill people, it is some of the fanatical, extremist, God worshipers that cause undo misery.
Guns and drones don't cause misery unless assisted by humans.
Autos dont cause misery, except when their faulty or humans are behind the wheel.
Bridges don't cause misery, except when humans forget to maintain them.
Gravity don't cause misery, except when humans fail to acknowledge cosmic laws/principles.
Nuclear power planets dont kill people unless it falls within the realm of an accepted 'cost benifit analysis' as as assessed by some humans who benifit from the sales of nuke plants.
Comlexity dont cause people misery, it is simple minded people who don't understand the complexity, that causes misery.
Simplicity doesn't cause misery, it is the over complication of the simple that causes misery.
Your attack against American morality comes from a historical event that took place more than 50 years ago? C'mon dude! All you're doing is showing everyone how much you hate America.
Sorry, but I wasn't born then. I would have kicked the attacker's ass!
When we lived at the apartment complex, there was a rock garden in our front yard. One night I heard a man yelling at a woman. I ran outside, picked up a big rock and yelled out, "Is there a problem!!!???" I was full ready to go use the rock to protect this woman. But they both looked embarrased and took care of their business more quietly, under my watchful eye.