EVOLUTION vs CREATIONISM

at this point God is an information filter
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Actually this has two good sides to it. First, God is not imposing Himself into the scientific discovery He made us enjoy. Second, by filtering based on an accurate understanding of God's nature, we do not get mired down in useless and overly complex theory.

Man is what creates useless complexity. Just look at the legal system :D
 
"I order you to be a free soul by doing exactly this"

Man is what creates useless complexity. Just look at the legal system
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Or, as another example, the interpretive diversity of God's definitive law on the planet: y'all are so unified in your faith, and without disagreements that I can see the evidence of God's nobility. ;)

Let me know when someone gets an accurate understanding of God's nature. I'll do The Wave.
First, God is not imposing Himself into the scientific discovery He made us enjoy.
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Right, by forcing you to enjoy it, he is not imposing his Will, Presence, or Authority?

Right. Please try again on that one. Or not, if you don't mind. You know, if a nation that claimed to be a Christian majority happened to behave this way on a governmental and institutional scale, what would the result be? I am reminded here of the Trail of Tears, in which we ran many tribes onto pathetic land and stole their homes, and did it because it was, uh, good for them. Elsewhere in this country and alon gthe same lines, our cavalry chased the Nez Perce across two states and into Canada with the sentiment that the only good Injun is a dead one, because people thought it was good for the tribe.

I offer that example, sir, to demonstrate what happens if you seriously think that concept you've offered works.

Well, it works okay if you're armed and doing the chasing. But otherwise, it's just bad psychology, and bad for any culture.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:
 
Creation vs Evolution

Evolution: from the minds of 'finite man'!
Creation: of GOD the Creator of all life, visible and invisible, known and unknown! And His wisdom is 'infinite' and is of the Supreme Intelligence!

Evolution is mostly theories. (Man made) [Man is no ways 'god'!] Darwin was only a man, and he was not preasent at the "dawn of creation!"

Creation is Reality! That it is of the truth of the WORD of GOD!:D And the Creator GOD was always in existance, and forever will be the Creator and the Sustainer of life!
 
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Thank you, Loone

Loone--

You do so much by your posts in the way of giving aid and comfort to those you have declared as enemies that I felt I owe you thanks. Your living demonstration of the benefit of Christianity makes me smile. :D

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:
 
E vs C

Tiassa:
Digging up 'funky old bones' will not disprove GOD's existence!
But will only help to understand something about the history of the Earth, but much is still only theories. :D

Archeology can help prove the Bible's historical accuracy!
 
Originally posted by tiassa
When you learn your station in the Universe, instead of assume it, you'll find that God is merely that much more accessible to you.
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We have learned it, therefore we have assumed it.

What President feels like the President the first day he is elected?
He assumes the Presidency when he is elected.

Right, by forcing you to enjoy it, he is not imposing his Will, Presence, or Authority?
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"made" does not necessarily mean "forced." It also means "created."

Besides, why aren't you on a tirade against your parents?
You aren't here of your own choice, anyway.
 
Evidence vs. "Evidence"

xvenomousx said:
c'mon lets slug it out.
please only good arguements and debate, no hitting below the belt, try to be factual and clear and not overly emotional.
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You can slug it out until the cows come home with "evidence vs. evidence." The problem is in the two different approaches to evidence.

The scientific approach is to refrain from making conclusions until all available evidence is examined. And even when such hypotheses lead to theories, they are not asserted as "absolute truths," but falsifiable theories, that forever hold out the possibility of being wrong.

Religion and creationism use a very different approach to evidence. The conclusion comes first, and it is usually based on some sort of underlying certitude, such as bible text or other untested conclusion. The evidence is not recognized unless it fits the conclusion, and if it appears to contradict the conclusion, its "disproved" by cherry-picking some special criteria.

The problem with placing the conclusion in front of the evidence, is that it tends to filter the evidence to favor the conclusion. After all, if a belief is an unquestioned certitude, all evidence must either fit that conclusion or be rejected.

I suppose it could be forgiven that a scientific approach, based on skepticism and admits to the possibiity of being wrong would appear similar to a lack of resolve to the religious mind. This "lack of resolve" (a.k.a. skepticism) is a far more powerful force than religion, and has given us much good to take for granted. The religious approach has given us very little, except a great deal of misery.
 
Tiassa said:
I say give the formal evolutionary theory 2,000 years to progress, and compare what it does in the world to Chrisitanity's two-millennia history. In addition to the volumes of laboratory data and field data collected and analyzed in that time, I think the introduction of such knowledge will actually bring a sense of peace to the human spirit in the specific sense that many superstitions will disappear. The social pressures of enacting those superstitions will disappear. The detriments of those social pressures will disappear.

Knowledge--education--benefits society. Superstition destroys it. This, I feel, is objectively demonstrated in history.

But what will we know by then? The objective data reward of two millennia spent learning about the Universe instead of fearing and hating it should hopefully be sufficient enough to drive superstition back to shadows. And the comfort of understanding our living partners in this human endeavor will bring great rewards of its own.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:
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While there are many that have superstitious attitude with there religion there are those who are not. While many religions are manifestation of superstition Chrisitianty is a bit different. It's established on events of the past that are not all symbolic. While science will continue to expand with knowledge religion such as christianity will remain...logicaly static. It has no reason to change as history and testimony should say ONE thing not alternating over time. Science and Religion are not the same. But they are frequently put iin the same basket as far as ideologies go.

If science is discovery and questioning
Religion is testimony and preservation of the past knowledge.

Whether you trust that information requires study of the details for that particular religion.

Creationism is highly speculative because of it's Six day proposal. There is a problem with fitting the dinosaurs and other prehistoric creatures in the time we've known. In this way religion refuse to budge it's understanding assuming that their understanding of the original testimony was correct. Details reveal there is an agreement between the testimony of the scriptures and science.

From there many confusing tenants are eliminated.
 
Saquist said:
While there are many that have superstitious attitude with there religion there are those who are not. While many religions are manifestation of superstition Chrisitianty is a bit different. It's established on events of the past that are not all symbolic. While science will continue to expand with knowledge religion such as christianity will remain...logicaly static. It has no reason to change as history and testimony should say ONE thing not alternating over time. Science and Religion are not the same. But they are frequently put iin the same basket as far as ideologies go.

If science is discovery and questioning
Religion is testimony and preservation of the past knowledge.

Whether you trust that information requires study of the details for that particular religion.

Creationism is highly speculative because of it's Six day proposal. There is a problem with fitting the dinosaurs and other prehistoric creatures in the time we've known. In this way religion refuse to budge it's understanding assuming that their understanding of the original testimony was correct. Details reveal there is an agreement between the testimony of the scriptures and science.

From there many confusing tenants are eliminated.
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A simple question. Based on your study of the bible, what is the age of the earth ? Please supply chapter and verse so we can check your interpretation
 
Evolution is bullshit, Creationism is obviously correct and what should be taught.
 
Who dragged up this old thread???

Norsefire, evolution is a fact. The process of evolution is still being studied.

Michael
 
OK. how about biochemical evolution? What about biology?
All those universities, books, seminars, and biologists? What are they all going to do now?
 
It's pointless to engage in this debate because the evolution crowd has embedded in their heads that no alter theory is plausible or worth investigating. It's as if modern day scientists have become perfectly content with the evolutionary theory, and see no reason or purpose in exploring other ideas. Whenever something contrary to the teachings of their theory is established, no matter what the beliefs are of those of those who raise the questions, they violently deny it, and call the perpetrators mindless creationists. Are we so bland as to be stuck with two groups of characterization, as in evolution and intelligent design? Surely there's some leeway.
 
Kadark said:
It's pointless to engage in this debate because the evolution crowd has embedded in their heads that no alter theory is plausible or worth investigating. It's as if modern day scientists have become perfectly content with the evolutionary theory, and see no reason or purpose in exploring other ideas. Whenever something contrary to the teachings of their theory is established, no matter what the beliefs are of those of those who raise the questions, they violently deny it, and call the perpetrators mindless creationists. Are we so bland as to be stuck with two groups of characterization, as in evolution and intelligent design? Surely there's some leeway.
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I ask for reasons and you reply with a tirade. It's clear that you cannot pick holes in evolutionary theory because you do not understand it. Just voicing disagreement will earn you no respect.

You say ceationism should be taught and at the same time express the view that there ought to be some leeway between evolution and creationism. You have fallen between two stools. Why not give your reasons for denying evolution. What faults have you found with the theory ?
 
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Myles said:
I ask for reasons and you reply with a tirade. It's clear that you cannot pick holes in evolutionary theory because you do not understand it. Just voicing disagreement will earn you no respect
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Actually, I didn't even read your post. I just read the title of the thread and posted my sentiments.
 
Norsefire said:
Evolution is bullshit, Creationism is obviously correct and what should be taught.
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While creation is the obvious conclusion Creationism it'self is a ...misunderstanding of the bible. The problems of prehistoric fossils is a clue that many Christian's persception of the bible needs some adjusting.

They have to be willing to not only jump into reasearch of the bible but of science aswell.
There's also no need to be dogmatic
 
There is no evolutionary theory Kadark, Evolution as a process is a fact not a theory. HOW the process of evolution occurs is still being studied.

Creationism on the other hand is a myth. In one myth people are created from the vagina of a lizard, in another life is from the tear of a Goddesses in anther life started as a kangaroo's dream, in another life came from a middle eastern desert God named Allah from another life started on the island of Japan etc...

These myths served their purpose back when we were primitive people heating out food with camel poop and lived in a tent and revered the guy over there in the big tent because he said he can hear God's voice in his head. Now we live in the age of genetics, atoms, electricity, moon landing, Internet, etc... we now know as a fact that a processes called evolution takes place and we debate exactly how the process is taking place. That's the Theory part - not that the processes is not taking place - that's the fact part.
 
Evolution isn't a fact, its a theory that is supported by many evidence that the majority accept. The stuff with electrons and neutrons and protons are still just theory that is very strongly supported. Like Einstein said, it takes many evidence to support one thing and takes just one to blow it all away.
 
Michael said:
There is no evolutionary theory Kadark, Evolution as a process is a fact not a theory. HOW the process of evolution occurs is still being studied.

Creationism on the other hand is a myth. In one myth people are created from the vagina of a lizard, in another life is from the tear of a Goddesses in anther life started as a kangaroo's dream, in another life came from a middle eastern desert God named Allah from another life started on the island of Japan etc...

These myths served their purpose back when we were primitive people heating out food with camel poop and lived in a tent and revered the guy over there in the big tent because he said he can hear God's voice in his head. Now we live in the age of genetics, atoms, electricity, moon landing, Internet, etc... we now know as a fact that a processes called evolution takes place and we debate exactly how the process is taking place. That's the Theory part - not that the processes is not taking place - that's the fact part.
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How do you know God didn't create the Universe with a set of laws (laws of physics and such ) and the universe, and us, simply evolved, but there was still a Creator?
 
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