evolution unravled

your wrong bec they did say it came from nothing and we cant comphend nothing bec people think of darkness or White which is something is it not so when you say nothing it cant be comphendable but not like you i have my resource and this is from scientist that believe in evolution big-bang-theory this is the cite big-bang-theory add com to all my resources[

Show me the quote from NASA which purportedly states this. No honest scientist claims that existence popped up out of nothing. They say the universe as we know it began at the Big Bang, that's all. The universe in this case is all of that which we can see and measure, and doesn't necessarily comprise all of existence itself.

one thang wrong with that asumption it from wikipedia which we all know they have false information i will still look at it and get back to you on it

Wikipedia science articles tend to be highly reliable, especially the ones pertaining to fields where there are many knowledgeable researchers. Most of the articles are peer reviewed on a regular basis to monitor quality, and they tend to be written by knowledgeable people since the fields of study are already highly specialized. Perhaps articles about obscure math theorems are less reliable when only a handful of people in the world understand them, but anything understandable at a beginner level like yours is going to be thoroughly reviewed and edited by the scientific community. In any case, I only use the Wikipedia links because they contain references to more advanced and authoritative sources you can always check. I learned much about these sciences at a higher level of detail, from authoritative sources in the field, and I can vouch for the articles I cite.

In your complaint about Wikipedia above, you were attempting to dismiss the cosmological evidence for the age of the universe being roughly 13 billion years. The article I cited merely scratches the surface on discussing the abundant evidence, but I recommend you actually read it if you want to be informed. I can refer you to standard university textbooks that discuss these matters in more detail, but before you could understand them properly you'd have to first attain a proper background in basic math and physics. Are you up to the challenge? I recommend you do make an effort over the next several years to learn this stuff, then you can see how little your religious "educators" actually know about science when they attempt to dismiss it.

Maybe you should look up thangs before you talktopix/forum/topstories/TRMCDO3PKUSN3FGM8 add com after talk topix

I followed your instructions to the letter and couldn't access the topic. In any case I don't care for anecdotal evidence of miracles. There's anecdotal evidence of vampires and zombies too. I'm looking for something that could be tested in a controlled environment.

But we do know but i start that in a diffrent thread because it wuld be getting off in Religion but what i will say we have documented proof of God you dont have document proof of evolution that i havent seen yet

What do you mean by documented proof? Like if it's written in an old book that someone claims was divinely inspired, that makes it proof? Science doesn't need documented proof; we don't believe in electromagnetism just because Heinrich Hertz tested it 120 years ago. Everything in science is testable even today.

that an observation that not in the books and no you are wrong about the magnetic field here the math lol
and about the txt books go ahead spin off you know the math doesnt add up

How would you know what's in the books? You haven't actually read any real science books. By your own admission, you don't even have the basic background you'd need in order to reach this level of discussion. There are so many things that point to continental shift, I'd rather not even prepared to discuss it with you because it's like arguing over whether there are clouds in the sky. And as for your claims about magnetic fields, doubly ridiculous. What do you know about magnetic fields? Have you ever tried to measure one? Have you ever solved a math problem involving one? Here's another perfectly valid link for you, which is easily backed up by more advanced sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_reversal.

The history of the Earth's magnetic field is recorded in the layers of lava deposits that build up over time around the world because this lava contains large amounts of iron. In molten iron, the unpaired electrons will align their spins to match the direction of the magnetic field to which they are exposed (such as the Earth's), resulting in a magnetic field of their own. While electrons were only discovered about 120 years ago, the effect itself has been known for much longer and is used to produce the north-south magnets you see all the time. When the iron cools off and forms a permanent layer, the electron spins remain fixed in place and resistant to being shifted. So iron deposits building one on top of the other over long periods of time will record the various stages of the Earth's magnetic field.

It's well known that the Earth's magnetic field shifts around, this has been directly measured by the US navy since the 1960's. The north pole doesn't move around that much on a map at any given time, so it might seem to be in one place when you look at your compass from far away. But it definitely shifts around bit by bit, and all the evidence to date indicates that the Earth's magnetic field reverses itself back and forth on a regular basis just like a swing set. In light of these facts, don't you find it absurd that religious educators claiming to understand basic science are using a straw man argument about geomagnetism to try and prove their bogus point? Yeah, me and my stupid math that makes actual testable and verifiable predictions. Lol indeed. I guess you think the computer you're using right now was made by randomly touching wires together and getting a bunch of nerds to bang on keyboards until something legible started to come out.

it doesnt that an assumption scientist had make something up so they could keep God out of it and you can say that it doesnt disagree but it does and to make it true they had to say billions of years ago to make it possible for them to be right

You have completely dodged the question. The speed of light in vacuum is very well known, there are many different ways to measure it, and it also happens to perfectly match the predictions of electromagnetism. It takes on a single value that doesn't change, no matter what frame of reference you choose. It takes light a minimum amount of time to get from one point in the universe to another, depending on how far apart those points are. We have many different ways of measuring the distance from Earth to various stars and galaxies. Some of them are billions of light years away. That means it takes billions of years for light to get from there to here, and if light hadn't been travelling for billions of years from these points, we wouldn't be able to see them. How do you explain this fact if not by the rational conclusion that the universe is likely billions of years old?

http://wwwsoc.nii.ac.jp/jmd/international/6th/S006/ here the cite that magnetic field getting smaller never getting bigger CPTBorg i left the math for you bec you wont belief what i come out with anyway lol

Here is blatant proof that you are attempting to debunk something of which you don't have the slightest grasp. You want to prove that the Earth's magnetic field is always getting weaker and always has, so you refer to a completely different subject that talks about the magnetic fields produced in a certain type of denture. In other words, this link you posted has nothing to do with the Earth's magnetic field, because it's about tooth repair. I guess you tried to google something, saw a bunch of pretty graphs and flashy pictures, hoped you'd throw that at me and I'd be too overwhelmed to call your bluff. Really sad stuff kid, and it's even sadder that this is what the leading proponents of Intelligent Design also try to do. They're uneducated cave men, dressed in fine clothes made by machines they didn't invent.

as you see they have missing links but they always get missing links look they say we evolve from the monkey what did the monkey evolve and and what did that evolve to many missing links it doesnt prove nothing but im glad you put a effort in to finding proof

Another straw man argument. Evolution does not say man came from monkeys. It says we have a common ancestor with monkeys. What you and your creationist ilk say about evolution is like me claiming that in the bible, God made Adam from his own feces.

Ah, but "demonstrate quite strongly" is not "proof" is it? What it does "demonstrate" is supportive at best.Therefore evolution is by no means a FACT. If you choose to believe evolution is fact, I respect that because it is your inalienable right to exercise faith. Go right ahead.

Serial killers could use this same argument to win every trial they ever faced. Nothing is a fact for certain beyond all possible doubt and denial. But when enough evidence accumulates, a rational person accepts that the theory which best predicts and agrees with this evidence is also the theory which is most likely to be correct. No alternative theory to evolution has, to date, matched the predictive power that evolution gives us.

Evolution is a scientific fact. Scientific facts are not like mathematical proofs.

Precisely. Why is that so hard for so many people to comprehend? The existence of breakfast isn't even a fact, but there's still abundant evidence for it.
 
Evolution is easily proven, you just have to look to the London Tube network.

http://www.gene.ch/gentech/1998/Jul-Sep/msg00188.html

This is the main reason why small animals like Mice, Rats and Flies have been used in many experiments. They live relatively short periods and have short gestation spans. This means many generations can occur in a human lifetime. (It's often stated that Laboratory hairless mice were created through this method)

You can apply the same findings to the Isle of Man's Manx Cats, along with the various types of Dog and Cat that we have domesticated.
 
Do you think it is a problem when people start using the phrase 'believed to be'?

The insects are believed to be the descendants of mosquitoes which
colonised the tunnels a hundred years ago when the Tube was being dug.

they were bird-biting pests. But over a
century, deprived of their normal diet, the mosquitoes have evolved
new feeding behaviour, dining on mammals including rats and mice - and
human beings. They now plague maintenance workers.

not that i intend to say that there is virtually no proof of evolution in existence at all but that is hardly a giant leap.
 
Scientists' use of colloquial language is often mis-interpreted. It could be cumbersome to use more precise terms. "Believed to be" means, "all evidence seems to point to this conclusion".
 
sure....sure.

and they fed off of birds but now they feed of of rats and mice. what are they feeding on? i guess blood.
 
Okay how about the Cats with the Founder Effect?

In honesty those religious nuts can't argue this one, after all if everyone was a son of Adam, then there would have to be a very good reason for the eventual diversity as opposed to extinction and that reason exists with the Founder Effect. (Even though religion is completely wrong)
 
wrong - what makes a scientific theory is it ability assimilate and explain existing data and make new predictions from that data that turn out to be correct -ToE has been fantastically successful at making predictions - the discovery of DNA and its role and behaviour, transitional fossils, obervation of speciation, random beneficial mutation, controlled experiments of natural selection - this is why ToE is such a successful and robust theory - this is why not one single thread of evide3nce has come foward in 120 years that supports a better alternative.



but its not ABSENT of proof - even by your own admission there's tons of evidence that support it - and none that contradicts it- it merely lacks some fine detail in certain areas, or is rendered impractical for observation high taxon evolution due to the timescales required to oberve it



Not impossible - but unlikely unless the human race sticks around for a few million years and keeps really good records.




Don't silly - even Dembski admitted in a court of law he had no actual evidence of design - just "intuition"
But if we really are finding evidence than you'll be happy to post it right?

I honestly wish I had more time today SP. Quickly I will post this.

1) your definition of a theory is pretty much exactly what I stated. A hypothesis is a big guess. A theory is that hypothesis broken down to part and process and further reinforced with supportive evidence. However, evidence does NOT constitute proof. We have tons of UFO photographic evidence, try proving they exist. The problem with ToE is that despite the careful observation of it's SPECULATIVE parts, it's not a proved process. For Random Beneficial Mutations to exist, there must be Random non beneficial mutations. How does this forward the notion of unguided evolution? If we introduce "survival of the fittest", it more or less reduces the odds to 50/50.
 
I honestly wish I had more time today SP. Quickly I will post this.

1) your definition of a theory is pretty much exactly what I stated. A hypothesis is a big guess. A theory is that hypothesis broken down to part and process and further reinforced with supportive evidence. However, evidence does NOT constitute proof. We have tons of UFO photographic evidence, try proving they exist. The problem with ToE is that despite the careful observation of it's SPECULATIVE parts, it's not a proved process. For Random Beneficial Mutations to exist, there must be Random non beneficial mutations. How does this forward the notion of unguided evolution? If we introduce "survival of the fittest", it more or less reduces the odds to 50/50.

ok - so we agreed onwhat ToE is - and what it isn't.

moving on then.

Unguided evolution - in relation to mutations is very straightforward -in fact you were very close to explaining it for yourself in that last post.

mutations can be neutral, deleterious or beneficial - mutations exhibit themselves with a population in the form of genetic variability - what decides whether particular variations are neutral deleterious or beneficial is the biological and/or physical environment - this "decision" is made by natural selection based upon the surivial/reproductive success contraints of a particular organism put upon it by the environment.

so you can see from this that natural selection AMPLIFIES the effects of beneficial mutation and weeds out deleterious mutation within a population

simple - no intelligence required - simply the inbuilt ability of all organisms (due to their common descent and the common genetic toolkit they all share) of physiological and morphological plasticity to adapt to changing environmental factors.

Of course sometimes it doesn't work or doesn't work in the right direction or doesn't work fast enough - that's why we get extnctions - which of course fly in the face of any childishly simplistic ideas of design or guidance.

moving on again - you were about to post that evidence you have that supports guided evolution - can we see it now please
 
Last edited:
For Random Beneficial Mutations to exist, there must be Random non beneficial mutations.
mistake one. mutations are not random but are dictated by the environment.
How does this forward the notion of unguided evolution?
mistake two. evolution IS guided, by the environment and its natural processes.
If we introduce "survival of the fittest", it more or less reduces the odds to 50/50.
survival of the fittest sums up evolution quite well.
the organisms that are most fit for an environment will be the ones most likely to survive it.
 
I honestly wish I had more time today SP. Quickly I will post this.

1) your definition of a theory is pretty much exactly what I stated. A hypothesis is a big guess. A theory is that hypothesis broken down to part and process and further reinforced with supportive evidence. However, evidence does NOT constitute proof. We have tons of UFO photographic evidence, try proving they exist. The problem with ToE is that despite the careful observation of it's SPECULATIVE parts, it's not a proved process. For Random Beneficial Mutations to exist, there must be Random non beneficial mutations. How does this forward the notion of unguided evolution? If we introduce "survival of the fittest", it more or less reduces the odds to 50/50.

Photographic evidence of UFO's is not even close to matching the evidence for evolution. UFO photographs are regularly shown to be fakes, usually of a poor quality too. There has never been a single photograph of a supposed UFO that has been demonstrated as both authentic and of something that can't be explained as anything but an intelligent alien spacecraft. Evolution is infinitely far more testable in a hands on sense- it's much harder to fake evidence for an incorrect theory and get away with it for long. People have tried.
 
In honesty those religious nuts can't argue this one, after all if everyone was a son of Adam, then there would have to be a very good reason for the eventual diversity as opposed to extinction and that reason exists with the Founder Effect. (Even though religion is completely wrong)

I will have to read that. I am more apt to believe in Panspermia.
 
mistake one. mutations are not random but are dictated by the environment.

mistake two. evolution IS guided, by the environment and its natural processes.

survival of the fittest sums up evolution quite well.
the organisms that are most fit for an environment will be the ones most likely to survive it.


This is beyond ridiculous. So what you are stating is that mutations are predictable based on the environment? If that's the case, there would be one species of life per genus that is ultimately adapted to it's indigenous environment. That is ludicrous in that you attempt to forward the illogical notion that the environment has a sentient quality or can in fact exercise any form of control whatsoever. It can influence most assuredly but is in no way ultimately responsible.

mutations can only occur in the living therefore the living are that which mutate. The environment cannot exercise control over mutation and therefore the energy responsible for mutation is contained within the organism that mutates. The mutation MAY be a reaction to the environment or it MAY be random having NOTHING to do with the environment whatsoever. There is positively no way to predict this.
 
dont you mean proceeded?

to be honest i feel differently every few months or weeks. sometimes even days.
 
Photographic evidence of UFO's is not even close to matching the evidence for evolution. UFO photographs are regularly shown to be fakes, usually of a poor quality too. There has never been a single photograph of a supposed UFO that has been demonstrated as both authentic and of something that can't be explained as anything but an intelligent alien spacecraft. Evolution is infinitely far more testable in a hands on sense- it's much harder to fake evidence for an incorrect theory and get away with it for long. People have tried.


This is the single biggest bullshit I have read on this forum. Sir, you don't have a clue what you are talking about. I humbly suggest you acquaint yourself with reality.

Holy grandiose NONSENSE.
 
It's more complex than that. Certain types of food can cause mutations, they are called mutagens. That is why most animals have a special restricted diet. Mutations are also random, cause by cosmic rays and such. Mutations are also controlled by DNA, through the mechanism of redundancy, guiding mutations to manifest in some areas of the genome, and leaving others unaffected.
 
mistake one. mutations are not random but are dictated by the environment.

mistake two. evolution IS guided, by the environment and its natural processes.

survival of the fittest sums up evolution quite well.
the organisms that are most fit for an environment will be the ones most likely to survive it.

only 2 out of 3 there leo - random mutation is called random mutation for a very good reason

can ya guess what it is yet ?
 
This is beyond ridiculous. So what you are stating is that mutations are predictable based on the environment? If that's the case, there would be one species of life per genus that is ultimately adapted to it's indigenous environment.

relax EF - he's wrong about mutations being predictable - New Synthesis evolutionary theory doesn't predict there would be one species of life per genus that is ultimately adapted to it's indigenous environment - the opposite in fact, it predicts the high levels of diversity we see - the only hypothesis that does predict low diversity ofthe type you mention is intelligently guided evolution (if you want me to expand on this with some real examples just ask).

Which (quite apart from the fact that you don't know enough about biology to understand the question) is why you couldn't answer my previous question about analogy, homology, vestigalism and parallel evolution in the context of an intelligently designed system.
 
Last edited:
This is the single biggest bullshit I have read on this forum. Sir, you don't have a clue what you are talking about. I humbly suggest you acquaint yourself with reality.

Holy grandiose NONSENSE.

The reality is there's not a single piece of scientific evidence for UFO's of alien origin that has been shown to be reproducible and independently verifiable. Godzilla is in photographs too, I guess we shouldn't challenge that either.
 
Back
Top