Evolution - True Or False

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Why do some apes have black hair and others have white or red? It's the same process that created our differences.
 
Wow, John. You're a little slow to catch on, aren't ya? Your question 'How did apes morph into humans?' is equivalent to asking 'How did mammals morph into cows?'

Here's a simple explaination:

http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/postmonth/may03.html

You are a metabolic organism.
As such, you are basically a collection of replicative proteins that function according to metabolic chemical reactions and processes. A virus is similar, in that it too is a replicative protein complete with mutable DNA and RNA, just as you have. But viruses lack metabolism, and so may not be considered to be alive in the same manner that you definitely are.

You are a eukaryote.
All remaining organic life is distinguished by structural differences at the cellular level between different groups of prokaryotes (which are essentially bacteria) and the eukaryotes (us). Unlike bacterial or viral cells, our cells have a nucleus. Hence, all non-viral / bacterial lifeforms are as we are; eukaryotes.

You are an animal.
Now I've heard a few creationists argue that there are plants and there are animals and then there are human beings. And that none of them are actually related to one another other than through a common creator. They adamantly argue that we are not animals, as if there is some insult in that association. But you are one of only about a half-dozen kingdoms of eukaryotic life forms. Unlike those of most other biological kingdoms, you are incapable of manufacturing your own food and must compensate for that by ingesting other organisms. In other words, your most basic structure requires that you cause death to other living things. Otherwise, you wouldn't have a means of digestion. This, along with some very specific anatomical differences in the chemical composition of our metazoic cells, are the factors that define and distinguish an animal like yourself from all other kingdoms of life. Given the alternative choice between plants, molds, or fungus, animalia should seem reasonable even to the most adamant fundamentalist.

You are a chordate.
You have a spinal chord and every other minute physical distinction of that classification. You also have a skull, which classifies you as a craniate. Note: Not all chordates have skulls, or even bones of any kind. Once one of the chordates has enough calcium deposited around the brain to count as a skull, all of its descendants will share that. This is why absolutely all animals with skulls have spinal chords. And that is yet another commonality that implies common ancestry as opposed to common design.

You are a vertebrate.
Like all mammals, birds, dinosaurs, reptiles, amphibians, and most fish, you have a spine. Not everything with a spinal cord has a spine to put it in, but everything with a spine has a spinal cord in it, implying common descent.

Every animal that has a jaw and teeth (Gnathostomata) also has a backbone. And of course, you have both as well, again implying common descent.

You are a tetrapod.
You have only four limbs. So you are like all other terrestrial vertebrates including frogs. Even snakes and whales are tetrapods in that both still retain vestigial or fetal evidence of all four limbs. This is yet another consistent commonality implying a genetic relationship. There certainly is no creationist explanation for it.

You are synapsid.
Unlike turtles (which are anapsid) and "true" reptiles, dinosaurs and birds (which are all diapsid), your skull has only one temporal fenestra, a commonality between all of the vast collection of "mammal-like reptiles", which are now all extinct without any Biblical recognition or scriptural explanation either for their departure or their presence in the first place.

You are a mammal.
You are homeothermic (warm-blooded), follicle-bearing and have lactal nipples. And of course, not all synapsids are or were mammals, but all mammals are synapsid, implying common descent.

You are eutherian.
Or more specifically, you are a placental mammal, like most other lactal animals from shrews to whales. All eutherians are mammals, but not all mammals are eutherian. There are six major divisions in mammalia, only three of which still exist; those that hatch out of eggs like reptiles (monotremes), marsupials, that are born in the fetal stage and complete their development inside the mother's pouch, and those that developed in a shell-like placenta and were born in the infant stage, as you were. Your own fetal development seems to reveal a similar track of development from a single cell to a tadpole-looking creature, then growing limbs and digits out of your finlike appendages, and finally outgrowing your own tail. Some would consider this an indication of ancestry. Especially since fetal snakes, for example, actually have legs, feet, and cute little toes, which are reabsorbed into the body before hatching, implying common descent.

You are a primate.
You have five fully-developed fingers and five fully-developed toes. Your toes are still prehensile and your hands can grasp with dexterity. You have only two lactal nipples and they are on your chest as opposed to your abdomen. These are pointless in males, which also have a pendulous penis and a well-developed ceacum or appendix, unlike all other mammals. Although your fangs are reduced in size, you do still have them along with some varied dentition indicative of primates exclusively. Your fur is thin and relatively sparse over most of your body. And your claws have been reduced to flat chitinous fingernails. Your fingers themselves have distinctive print patterns. You are also susceptible to AIDS and are mortally allergic to the toxin of the male funnel web spider of Australia (which is deadly to all primates, but only dangerous to primates, which is why you'd better beware of these spiders). And unlike all but one unrelated animal in all the world, your body cannot produce vitamin-C naturally and must have it supplemented in your diet, just as all other primates do. Nearly every one of these individual traits are unique only to primates exclusively. There is almost no other organism on Earth that matches any one of these descriptions separately, but absolutely all of the lemurs, tarsiers, monkeys, apes, you, and I match all of them at once perfectly, implying common descent.

You are an ape.
Your tail is merely a stub of bones that don't even protrude outside the skin. Your dentition includes not only vestigial canines, but incisors, cuspids, bicuspids, and distinctive molars that come to five points interrupted by a "Y" shaped crevasse. This in addition to all of your other traits, like the dramatically increased range of motion in your shoulder, as well as a profound increase in cranial capacity and disposition toward a bipedal gait, indicates that you are not merely a vertebrate cranial chordate and a tetrapoidal placental mammalian primate, but you are more specifically an ape, and so was your mother before you.

Genetic similarity confirms morphological similarity rather conclusively, just as Charles Darwin himself predicted more than 140 years ago. While he knew nothing of DNA of course, he postulated that inheritable units of information must be contributed by either parent. He rather accurately predicted the discovery of DNA by illustrating the need for it. Our 98.4% to 99.4% identical genetic similarity explains why you have such social, behavioral, sexual, developmental, intellectual, and physical resemblance to a bonobo chimpanzee. Similarities that are not shared with any other organism on the planet. Hence you are both different species of the same literal family. In every respect, you are nearly identical. You, sir, are an ape.

And as I have witnessed the birth of both of my children, I have now met the criteria for your reward. Please make my $1,000,000.00 payable to L. Aron Nelson. Thank you.
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Baron Max said:
Is that any more difficult to believe than some "creature" leaped up out of the primodial soup and yelled, "Here I am, world ....LIFE!" ...and then proceeded to slowly become all of the creatures on Earth???
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and youd rather BELIEVE that all human race started with one man...
Adam huh?
and from his rib the Big dog made woman?
mind you explaining HOW the different RACES of different collored people came about??a
and how come we arent all INBRED retards,which is what happens when family members fuck each other
I have this vision of a dirty, filthy, little creature crawling up onto the land, then sprouting wings and flying across the African plains .....shitting out little dabs of shit that suddenly become humans as the shit hits the ground! ...LOL!

Baron Max
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I suggest you start here www.talkorigins.org
 
scorpius said:
and youd rather BELIEVE that all human race started with one man... Adam huh?
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No, I'm quite content in not making up my mind until I have all of the evidence and proof necessary for one idea or the other.

"I don't know" is still a very good answer ....even if so few people are willing to admit it. Most would rather hurriedly form their opinions about things of which they know little or nothing.

I don't know. I have a difficult time with evolution, not so much in the adaptive changes in animals, but in the very ideal of ...where the fuck did any of it start in the beginning? If one can't actually answer that with proof positive, then all of it just ....belief or, worse, unsubstantiated opinion.

Baron Max
 
mountainhare said:
Wow, John. You're a little slow to catch on, aren't ya? Your question 'How did apes morph into humans?' is equivalent to asking 'How did mammals morph into cows?'

Here's a simple explaination:

http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/postmonth/may03.html
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scorpius said:
and youd rather BELIEVE that all human race started with one man...
Adam huh?
and from his rib the Big dog made woman?
mind you explaining HOW the different RACES of different collored people came about??a
and how come we arent all INBRED retards,which is what happens when family members fuck each other

I suggest you start here www.talkorigins.org
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Mountainhare,

Actually i did believe in the human evolutionary roadmap, a long time ago. The change came about upon learning that not only is it a physical impossibility it is as far as humans are concerned more than that.

If you took away all human life from the Earth and left all ape's (Hominidae-minus the inclusion of humans) how long would it take to produce more humans? i really believe it will never happen without some other intervention- organic or supernatural/

There would be alot of Apes throwing shit at eachother but no humans.

There is no use reading into these statements, all it is meant to do is inject the possibilty of a more feasible conclusion.

Scorpius,

That is not what we are referring to.
 
Baron Max said:
Sure. But isn't it equally true that god could have directed every single step in every single cell in every single living thing? I.e., evolution/change/adaptation occurs, but it's not "natural", it's directed?
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Then your god hates you and wishes to punish you.

To quote Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion..

"Many of our human ailments, from lower back pain to hernias, prolapsed uteruses and our susceptibility to sinus infections, result directly from the fact that we now walk upright with a body that was shaped over hundreds of millions of years to walk on all fours."​

Our bodies are not perfect and has many flaws Baron. You'd think if you were somehow created or made by a God, he/she would have gotten right, wouldn't you?

What I find interesting is that those who believe in evolution use that same "belief" to show/prove that a "belief" in god is wrong. Nothing could be further from the truth.
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You are saying with certainty that God exists?

John99 said:
so lay the debate to rest and explain how an ape morphs into a human.
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Don't ask me why, but what comes to mind upon reading this is an old Michael Jackson video.

Do you think that we went from swinging in the trees in one generation and being hairless, walking upright and building houses in the next generation? It was a slow and gradual process that took millions of years. Hence we 'evolved'.

so then are there any living human cultures that are closer to ape than others?
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:bugeye:

Seriously, I don't know if you are being stupid on purpose to get a rise out of people or if you really are this stupid. While I hate to refer to people as stupid, it is the only word that comes to mind at this point.

Please, refer to the links provided in this thread (eg www.talkingorigins.org. And read through it carefully and slowly. Allow it to sink in.
 
John99 said:
Mountainhare,

Actually i did believe in the human evolutionary roadmap, a long time ago. The change came about upon learning that not only is it a physical impossibility it is as far as humans are concerned more than that.

If you took away all human life from the Earth and left all ape's (Hominidae-minus the inclusion of humans) how long would it take to produce more humans? i really believe it will never happen without some other intervention- organic or supernatural/

There would be alot of Apes throwing shit at eachother but no humans.
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And there might very well not be humans since we as a race were taken from the earth (by your example). You can't know what else would evolve. You are thinking with the belief that we (humans) were placed here with a purpose and that we are the be all and end all. We will most probably evolve over the next few million years (if we haven't killed off our race in the meantime) into something else.

Evolution has not stopped with us. We aren't the final product. With evolution there is no final product. You have the here and now. Millions of years down the track, we may not be as we are today. Evolution is continuous.
 
We will most probably evolve over the next few million years (if we haven't killed off our race in the meantime) into something else.
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Really? so in the time from the Roman Empire to present would you say we evolved or devolved?

I have to say that first paragraph deals more in magic than science.
 
John99 said:
Mountainhare,

Actually i did believe in the human evolutionary roadmap, a long time ago. The change came about upon learning that not only is it a physical impossibility it is as far as humans are concerned more than that.
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all I know that humans have been around and evolving for something like 100 thousand years,plenty of time to adapt and evolve and change imo.
evolution doesnt mean one creature changes quickly into another,however
after long time they might IF they need to adapt to survive.
did you know that todays birds are descendants of dinosaurs?
I think good example of evolution would be dogs which were only wild wolfs first and look how many different kinds of dogs we have now,how did that change happen?
If you took away all human life from the Earth and left all ape's (Hominidae-minus the inclusion of humans) how long would it take to produce more humans?
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irellevant,humans and apes share common ancestor thats all,heck we share 95% of DNA with apes,if that dont prove we are related I dont know what would
i really believe it will never happen without some other intervention- organic or supernatural/
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what does SUPERNATURAL means?
everything that exist is natural,or have you seen anything "supernatural"??
I surely havent
 
Scorpius,

no offense but everything you wrote proves nothing.

,however
after long time they might IF they need to adapt to survive.
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too many extinct species nullify this concept. life on this planet does not hinge on the survival of one species and when you say adapt in what way do you mean? how will polar bears adapt when their habitat is gone? if we moved them to a tropical island will they make a drastic change, die or stay the same?

Too drastic a change and they will die, i am sure of this and too little and there will be no change.

what do you think will happen?
 
Bells said:
Then your god hates you and wishes to punish you.
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Well, everyone else seems to, so he can just wait his turn in line!

Bells said:
Our bodies are not perfect and has many flaws Baron. You'd think if you were somehow created or made by a God, he/she would have gotten right, wouldn't you?
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Maybe we started out as "perfect", then evolved into our present, imperfect form?? Hmm?

Bells said:
You are saying with certainty that God exists?
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I don't know. But it's so interesting that y'all are so willing to "believe" in something like animals leaping up out of the primordial soup and becoming life that I'm struck by your willingness to denigrate someone else's differing beliefs?

Bells said:
It was a slow and gradual process that took millions of years. Hence we 'evolved'.
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From what, pray tell? Perhaps from that little creature that leaped up out of the primordial soup? POOF! "Me Tarzan, where's Jane ...I wanna' fuck!"

Baron Max
 
John99 said:
Really? so in the time from the Roman Empire to present would you say we evolved or devolved?

I have to say that first paragraph deals more in magic than science.
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There is no natural process of devolution (never mind DEVO), it's all evolution. Yes, I think some minor changes have occurred in that time. The gene pool is now far larger, for instance.
 
Hi Baron---

Depending on what level of proof you require from a theory, evolution cannot be proved definitively. The time scales involved are simply too long. One can only hope to gather evidence, and make a decision based on the evidence.

If there is a God making decisions at the quantum level, then there is no way for us to know. This is a philosophical question. We have a theory called evolution, which is predictive and does not rely on supernatural influences. Most evidence that we have supports that theory, whether it be fossil record, molecular biological evidence, or empirical evidence. The theory you presented has no distinction from evolution except for some mythical decision making entity whose identity can (presumably) never be known.
 
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and? you post links to what we call DNA, studies of what we call chromosomes. so lay the debate to rest and explain how an ape morphs into a human.

shouldnt be a problem right?
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Not a problem at all. Take DNA. Change it very slowly in an isolated population. Wait a million years. Compare to the original population and note differences. QED.

I'm confused about what position you are arguing from---do you have any alternative explanation or do you just think evolution is wrong?
 
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