Evils, Atrocities and Injustices of the Torah

T

the preacher

fur is loose 666
Registered Senior Member
the torah the first five books of the bible, I thought we should take a good look, so here we go.

Evils, Atrocities and Injustices of the Torah

The following is a very SHORT list of sadistic acts that are commanded, allowed, or threatened by God and his “righteous” men. All of these verses can be found in the Torah. (which are the first five books of the Bible.) I have put them in chronological order so that you may verify them as you read along. (Keep in mind that the scriptures literally have an atrocity on every other page. So this list will keep evolving as I work through the Pentateuch yet again. To compile a full list may take months, so feel free to check back in later.) God entraps humans by placing the tree of knowledge in the garden and telling Adam and Eve not to eat of it. This is rather similar to placing a toy in front of a child and telling them they are not allowed to play with it. God created us with instinct, rebellion, and curiosity. Soon he punishes us for only doing what is part of our nature. Genesis 2:16.47

God now commands that all women must have health hazardous labors for Eve ate the fruit. In no way shape or form is it just that I must pay for the sins of my ancestors. Genesis 3:16

God caused sibling rivalry by favouring Abel over Cain, with absolutely no attempt at justification. This act of favoritism led to Abel’s death. Genesis 4:3-5

Genesis 7:23 He killed, intentionally, every man, woman, and child on the planet save eight of them.

God commands Hagar go back into servanthood and bear children for her master though she does not want to. Genesis 16:7-9

Genesis 19:23-25 God burns down a whole city (women and children included) simply because they were supposedly homosexual.

Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and that the Lord slew him. How was Er wicked? The Bible doesn’t give us this bit of information, only that Er was wicked in the sight of the Lord. Genesis 38:7

Genesis 38:10 God murders Onan for refusing to commit incest with his sister in law.

Exodus 12:29 God repeatedly tells Moses exactly what calamity he will next visit upon the Egyptians if the Pharaoh does not allow the Israelites to be set free from slavery. Then he tells Moses (also repeatedly) that he will harden Pharaoh’s heart, so that he will refuse to allow the Israelites to go, thus bringing a calamity upon his own people, as well as showing him the awesome power of the Israelites’ Lord. This occurs over and over, bringing calamity upon calamity upon the Egyptian people. What is troubling about this verse is that when god “hardens the pharaoh’s heart” he is interfering with the Pharaoh’s free will and ultimately bringing punishment on the Egyptians for something they are not responsible for. As a final punishment god decides to kill all the first born of Egypt. The lord reduced himself to murdering innocent kids when he could have simply freed the Israelites himself with his “omnipotent” power.

God punishes children for the sins of their fathers, unto the third and fourth generations. Punishing a child for the sins of their ancestors is not very just. Exodus 20:5&34:7

God endorses slavery. He even set up laws as to how slavery was to be carried out, and goes as far as Okaying beating them. Exodus 21:2-6

God sanctioned the selling of ones daughter. How can any being tell another to literally sell their child into slavery? Disgusting! Exodus 21:7

Exodus 22:18 God orders the death of witches, sorceresses and anyone who practices magic. Sadly enough, this verse was justification for the Inquisition.

Exodus 32:27 God ordered to be killed, 3,000 Israelites for no greater crime than worshipping a golden calf. I don’t know about you but death is a pretty harsh fucking punishment.

Leviticus 20:9-10 God commands death for cursing out ones parents and death for adultery. Gee, with these types of laws the population should be almost nil by now.

Once again god is a homophobe, or at the very least, a bigot. Leviticus 20:13

Handicapped people must not approach the altar. Leviticus 21:16-23

Leviticus 26:30 “And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shill ye eat.”

Leviticus 27:28-29 God ordered and allowed human sacrifices.

Numbers 16:27 God buries alive Korah and his family.

Numbers 16:35 God killed 250 Levite princes who disagreed with Moses’ leadership. He was so bloodthirsty that he wanted to slay more until he was talked out of it. Later he put a plague upon 14,700 Jews who thought there was something wrong in killing 250 princes.

Numbers 21:1-3 God utterly destroyed the Canaanites at Hormah as a favor to the Jews.

Numbers 21:27-35 God abetted Moses in utterly destroying the Amorites at Heshbon - “…the men, the women, and the little ones.”

Numbers 31:17-18 God commands Moses to kill all the Medianite people including children and women. To top it off he commands that the virgins be saved for later raping by Moses’ soldiers.

Deuteronomy 3:3-7 God ordered Moses’ army to “utterly destroy” 60 cities, killing all the women and children within!

Deuteronomy 7:12 God ordered the Israelites to kill all the people of seven nations. He even adds, “show no mercy unto them”.

Deuteronomy 20:16 God orders that we kill everything that breathes in the cities that he gives us for an inheritance

A bastard can’t attend church “even to his tenth generation.” As if denying an innocent child rights to worship isn’t cruel. Deuteronomy 23:2

good aint it.
 
these are interpretations of ENGLISH scriptures.
the torah is written in hebrew. ANYONE with a knowledge of the language knows that there is not one meaning for a word.
therefore, when translated to english, a scripture loses almost ALL meaning.

shall i tell the story of the septuagint?
 
devil what is your native tongue, the country and language of you origins.
is hebrew your second language?.
 
well there you go then, when your speaking or listening or reading hebrew, you have to first translate it into american standardized block english, in your head.
so what difference does it make if it's in english, it could have been original written in Aramaic, could you have read it then. unless you never spoke any other language other then hebrew until very recently, your arguement for what language it's best read in is invalid.
 
lol are you ignorant of linguistics?
i "translate" as you say.
i have a HEBREW VOCABULARY!!
do you speak only one language or something?
perhaps you cant grasp the concept.
 
what I gather from this is, you have a hebrew vocabulary as a second language,
then what the preacher say make perfect sense. what earthly good would it do to learn hebrew when all the learned rabi's though the centurys have already translated the torah. into english. or are they all wrong and you are right. you arrogant shit.
 
lol no.
i asked a question:
shall i tell the story of the septuagint?
do you even know what that is, fahrenheit?

no i dont think they were wrong. but the multitudes upon multitudes of "anglicization" of the Torah ARE wrong, for the most part.
there is no talking snake in the hebrew Torah.
you arrogant shit.
lol
that was retarded.
 
The point here is not to get in a fight, I hope. That is a waste of time that could be spent better.

Let's hear an explanation of a couple of those things - mistranslation, situation, etc.
Don't just generalize and say it is all simple mistranslation and give no specifics.
If it is only one of the aspects of God doing these things, why is that aspect of God not "evil" or whatever?
If you want to start with the story to give people some background please do, I am just interested in a scholarly jewish understanding of these events. I'm sure there are more people than just me interested in the subject?
I only post to avoid people wasting time with squabbling.

P.S. DEVIL, Path of the Kabbalah is a very cool book and I'm sure I'll have some questions you may have answers about (after I finish the book to make sure they aren't already answered inside.)
 
Last edited:
The Devil Inside said:
these are interpretations of ENGLISH scriptures.
the torah is written in hebrew. ANYONE with a knowledge of the language knows that there is not one meaning for a word.
therefore, when translated to english, a scripture loses almost ALL meaning.

shall i tell the story of the septuagint?
Click to expand...

The Septuagint (LXX) is the name commonly given to the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) made in the first centuries BC. The Septuagint bible includes additional books beyond those used in today's Jewish Tanakh. The additional books were composed in Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic, but in most cases, only the Greek version has survived to the present. It is the oldest and most important complete translation of the Hebrew Bible made by the Jews. Some targums translating or paraphrasing the Bible into Aramaic were also made around the same time.


The Septuagint derives its name (derived from Latin septuaginta, 70, hence the abbreviation LXX) from a legendary account in the Letter of Aristeas of how seventy-two Jewish scholars (six scribes from each of the twelve tribes) were asked by the Egyptian pharaoh Ptolemy II Philadelphus in the 3rd century BC to translate the Torah for inclusion in the Library of Alexandria. Although they were kept in separate chambers, they all produced identical versions of the text in seventy-two days. Although this story is widely viewed as implausible today, it underlines the authority that the translation had among Jews of the day.

Dating and critical scholarship

Modern scholarship holds that the LXX was translated and composed over the course of the 3rd through 1st centuries BC, beginning with the Torah.

The oldest witnesses to the LXX include 2nd century BC fragments of Leviticus and Deuteronomy (Rahlfs nos. 801, 819, and 957), and 1st century BC fragments of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, and the Minor Prophets (Rahlfs nos. 802, 803, 805, 848, 942, and 943). Relatively complete manuscripts of the LXX include the Codex Vaticanus and the Codex Sinaiticus of the 4th century AD and the Codex Alexandrinus of the 5th century. These are indeed the oldest surviving nearly-complete manuscripts of the Old Testament in any language; the oldest extant complete Hebrew texts date from around 1000.

Some scholars, comparing existing copies of the Septuagint, Masoretic text, the Samaritan text, and the Dead Sea scrolls, suggest that the Septuagint was not translated directly from what is today the Masoretic Text, but rather from an earlier Hebrew text that is now lost. However, other scholars suggest that the Septuagint itself changed for various reasons, including scribal errors, efforts at exegesis, and attempts to support theological positions, a charge that could equally be made against the Masoretic text. Accordingly, the Septuagint went through a number of revisions and recensions, the most famous of which include those by Aquila (AD 128), a student of Rabbi Akiva; and Origen (235), a Christian theologian in Alexandria.

These issues notwithstanding, the text of the LXX is usually very close to that of the Masoretic. For example, Genesis 4:1-6 is identical in both LXX and Masoretic texts. Likewise, Genesis 4:8 to the end of the chapter is the same. There is only one substantial difference in that chapter, at 4:7, to wit:

Genesis 4:7, LXX (Brenton)
Hast thou not sinned if thou hast brought it rightly, but not rightly divided it? Be still, to thee shall be his submission, and thou shalt rule over him.

Genesis 4:7, Masoretic (KJV)
if thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Use of the Septuagint

Jewish use

Jewish attitudes toward translations of their scriptures developed with time. By the 2nd century BC, it was often necessary for the readings in the synagogues to be interpreted from Hebrew into Aramaic, producing the need for the targums, though some one Talmud writer forbids their use except for with foreigners. A later Talmudic injunction by Rabbi Simon ben Gamaliel said that Greek was the only language into which the Torah could be accurately translated. The Septuagint found widespread use in the Hellenistic world, even in Jerusalem, which had become a rather cosmopolitan city. Both Philo and Josephus show the influence of the Septuagint in their citations of scripture, though both modified passages that did not agree with the Hebrew text.

Several factors finally led Jews to abandon the LXX, including the fact that Greek scribes were not subject to the same rigid rules imposed on Hebrew scribes; that Christians favoured the LXX; and the gradual decline of the Greek language among Jews. Instead, Hebrew/Aramaic manuscripts compiled by the Masoretes, or authoritative Aramaic translations such as that of Onkelos, of Rabbi Yonasan ben Uziel, and Targum Yerushalmi, were preferred.


Christian use

The Early Christian Church, however, continued to use the LXX, since most of its earliest members were Greek-speaking and because the Messianic passages most clearly pointed to Jesus as the Christ in the Septuagint translation. When Jerome started preparation of the Vulgate translation of the Bible into Latin, he started with the Septuagint, checking it against the Hebrew Masoretic Text for accuracy, but ended up translating most of the Old Testament afresh from the Hebrew. (Jerome based his Psalms off of the Septuagint, however.) However, all the other early Christian translations of the Old Testament were done from the Septuagint with no regard to the Hebrew text.

The writers of the New Testament, also written in Greek, quoted from the Septuagint frequently, though not exclusively, when relating prophesies and history from the Old Testament. Even when Latin, Syriac, Coptic, Armenian and other translations appeared, the Septuagint continued to be used by the Greek-speaking portion of the Christian Church. The Eastern Orthodox Church still prefers to use LXX as the basis for translating the Old Testament into other languages, and the Greek Orthodox Church (which has no need for translation) continues to use it in its liturgy even today. Many modern Catholic translations of the Bible, while using the Masoretic text as their basis, employ the Septuagint to decide between different possible translations of the Hebrew text whenever the latter is unclear, corrupt, or ambiguous.

Language of the Septuagint

The Greek of the Septuagint shows many Semiticisms, or idioms and phrases based on Hebrew, and the grammatical phenomenon known as attraction is common there. Some parts of it have been described as "Hebrew in Greek words". However, other sections show an ignorance of Hebrew idiom, so that the literal translation provided makes little sense. The translation in the Pentateuch is very close to the Hebrew, while some other books, such as the book of Daniel show influence from the midrash. Ecclesiastes is near over-literal, while Isaiah is fairly loosely translated. This is cited as near-certain evidence that the translation was in fact made by several different translators.

The translators usually, but not always, employed one and the same Greek word for one Hebrew word whenever it occurs. Thus the Septuagint can be called a mostly concordant translation. However, like most translations of any literary work from one language into another, it shows the effect that often more than one Hebrew word gets translated into the same Greek word, removing some nuances from the text.


Books of the Septuagint

The vast majority of the Septuagint coincides with the Jewish Tanakh, although the order does not always coincide with the modern ordering of the books, which was settled some time before AD 200.

A few books are differently named. Thus the Books of Samuel and the Books of Kings stand under the name of the four Books of Kingdoms , and the Books of Chronicles are called Paraleipomenon .

More significant are the books that do not occur in the Tanakh. These are generally accepted by the Orthodox as scripture, though 4 Maccabees is very often relegated to an appendix. Since there are various editions of the Septuagint, however, there are slightly different canons in the various Orthodox jurisdictions. Catholics accept seven of these books, and the additions to Daniel and Esther. Protestants generally regard them as apocryphal. The "neutral" name for these additions, and the name favored by Catholics, Orthodox, and most modern researchers, is deuterocanonical books. (See Books of the Bible for a comparison of canons.)

The additional books in most editions of the Septuagint are 1 Esdras, Tobit, Judith, Wisdom of Solomon, Wisdom of Sirach, Baruch, Letter of Jeremiah (considered by Catholics as part of Baruch), additions to Daniel (Prayer of Azariah, Song of the Three Children, Susanna and Bel and the Dragon), additions to Esther, 1 Maccabees, 2 Maccabees, 3 Maccabees, 4 Maccabees, Psalm 151, and Odes (including the Prayer of Manasseh).



So what is your point about the Septuagint, the english translation could have been made from Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic texts or all of them, so what exactly is your problem with the english version, and why is it so different to the other three, as I've said hebrew scholars have translated it.
but is your version better than theres.

BTW who mentioned talking snakes in the torah, it does not say it in the original post, so who did.
 
well the god of the bible, and the god of the torah are one and the same.
so you should have expected it, to be a vile evil creature regardless.
mind you that's if it existed.
 
i asked if you wanted me to tell you about the septuagint. i am not interested in YOUR opinion of it.
there is more to it than you have written there.
would you like for me to inform you?
 
it's seems the devil inside you are clutching at straws, and do you realise that is the exact answer a religious person says when they have'nt got an answer.
instead of beating round the bush inform us get you point across, else you just look like an idiot, waving his arm around like ET.
 
...God entraps humans by placing the tree of knowledge in the garden and telling Adam and Eve not to eat of it. ...Genesis 2:16.47
Click to expand...

Obviously, God wanted us to eat it, but also knew that knowledge has a price, hence the warning.
 
Lot offering up his 2 virgin daughters to a perverted mob:

Genesis19:8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

More from Genesis, Lots daughters get him drunk and then have sex with him.

19:32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
19:33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
19:34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
19:35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
19:36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.


I'll have to try and recall the bashing childrens brains out with rocks verse....
 
The interesting thing about the Adam and Eve episode was that before they ate the apple, neither Adam nor Eve knew what evil was. Nor did they know what death was. Thus they could not know that it was evil/wrong to eat the apple and they did not understand the consequences of the actions.

Its like me saying eating the apple is bubbleflops and will result in your Flooping.

Also which of the 2 creation stories is true, which came first man or beast?
 
Sometimes it is justified to kill people in defense of yourself, family, faith, and country. In The Old Testament God would smite the enemies of righteousness so future generations would not be lost to ignorance and disbelief. Before the atonement God had to bring much harsher judgment on people. After the atonement he could show mercy because Jesus Christ paid the price of sin. This is why in the Olden days the wrath of God was much stronger than it is today.

God is the ultimate judge. We are not the judges of God. To have faith is to believe what ever God does he has a righteous purpose for it.
 
Brutus1964 said:
Sometimes it is justified to kill people in defense of yourself, family, faith, and country. In The Old Testament God would smite the enemies of righteousness so future generations would not be lost to ignorance and disbelief. Before the atonement God had to bring much harsher judgment on people. After the atonement he could show mercy because Jesus Christ paid the price of sin. This is why in the Olden days the wrath of God was much stronger than it is today.

God is the ultimate judge. We are not the judges of God. To have faith is to believe what ever God does he has a righteous purpose for it.
Click to expand...
it might be justified in extreme case to kill to protect your family, but for any other reason it's not. even if you call yourself a god you have no right to kill for those reasons , only a cruel callous malicous sadistic bastard would do it.
please define who are the righteous are, and who are the ignorant.
because I'm not a sheep, I have no sky daddy controling my life, you are not Morally better then me or anybody else, but you certainly are ignorant of the facts.
god does not exist therefore it has no power over anybody, and you are correct we are not the judges of non-existence, that would be stupid.
to have faith is to have a belief, that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. in essense delusional.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top