Medicine Woman said:
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M*W: By pre-biblical civilizations I mean the Sumerians, Babylonians, Egyptians, etc.
Witchcraft in the true sense of the word is nothing more than environmental friendliness. It's followers worship nature, which I believe is quite honorable. The most fundamental rule of true Wicca is to "first, do ye no harm." The dark side of that is the black witchcraft which requires blood sacrifices, similar to Jesus' alleged crucifixion, as in the black mass.
I'm trying to figure out if Lucifer's allegorical fall from grace was history's first claim to evil. The Egyptian empire of course was a pre-Biblical civilization and evil was known in those times, so my question is when exactly did Lucifer fall from grace? After all, Lucifer was called "the Morningstar" as was Jesus -- explain that! And Venus is also called the Morningstar. So is Lucifer Venus? Is Venus Lucifer? Is Jesus Lucifer? Is Lucifer Jesus? And what is the true meaning of the Beatle's song title, "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds?"
I found this interesting information from the encyclopaedia which might be useful to the discussion:
When did ethics begin and how did it originate? If we are referring to ethics proper—i.e., the systematic study of what we ought to do—it is clear that ethics can only have come into existence when human beings started to reflect on the best way to live. This reflective stage emerged long after human societies had developed some kind of morality, usually in the form of customary standards of right and wrong conduct. The process of reflection tended to arise from such customs, even if in the endit may have found them wanting. Accordingly, ethics began with the introduction of the first moral codes.
Virtually every human society has some form of myth to explain the origin of morality. In the Louvre in Paris there is a black Babylonian column with a relief showing the sun god Shamash presenting the code of laws to Hammurabi. The Old Testament account of God giving the Ten Commandments to Moses on Mt. Sinai might be considered another example. In Plato's Protagoras there is an avowedly mythical account of how Zeus took pity on the hapless humans, who, living in small groups and with inadequate teeth, weak claws, and lack of speed, were no match for the other beasts. To make up for these deficiencies, Zeus gave humans a moral sense and the capacity for law and justice, so that they could live in larger communities and cooperate with one another.
That morality should be invested with all the mystery and power of divine origin is not surprising. Nothing else could provide such strong reasons for accepting the moral law. By attributing a divine origin to morality, the priesthood became its interpreter and guardian, and thereby secured for itself a power that it would not readily relinquish. This link between morality and religion has been so firmly forged that it is still sometimes asserted that there can be no morality without religion. According to this view, ethics ceases to be an independent field of study. It becomes, instead, moral theology.
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On the 'Morningstar' issue:
We are currently aware of the Scripture in 2 Corinth. 11:14
14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
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Isaiah 14:12
How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
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Revelation 22:16
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[ 22:16 The Greek is plural.] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."
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The first discrepancy here is that Jesus calls Himself the "bright Morning Star", while Isaiah refers to Satan as the "fallen... morning star". From this comparison, Jamieson, Fausset, Brown Commentary concludes:
Lucifer--"day star." A title truly belonging to Christ (Revelation 22:16), "the bright and morning star," and therefore hereafter to be assumed by Antichrist.
This conclusion is derived from the rest of the text in Isaiah, which describes Satan as having been cast down
AFTER "laying low the nations". This is in contrast to having been sacked out of heaven in the Beginning.
After the preaching of the 70 disciples, during which devils were subjected to them, Jesus saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven (Luke 10:18). According to the visions in the Book of Revelation, when the risen Christ returns from heaven to reign on earth, Satan will be bound with a great chain for a thousand years, then be released, but almost immediately face final defeat and be cast into eternal punishment.
I'm also guessing we see Venus in the morning, but then I don't listen to the Beatles, they're not native to my geography.
As for witchcraft and the like, you had better think that again. Voodoo originated in the land where I am from and therefore I would think twice before calling it "good". Especially if you saw that special on TV, the documentary on voodoo. I felt a pang of belonging to those people practicing lawlessness and yet felt thankful to be saved from such damnation. Some people think voodoo is rubbish and impotent but..
