Ethics of cloning a Neanderthal

[orcot]

Neanderthal parents? They would choose 400,000BC south of France, but i'm pretty sure that option is not open.
Still No

Normal human beings first appeared and where adapted for life in a stone age culture on the african savanna. However most people would agree that this would not be the best enviroment and culture to raise your children today

 

[billvon]

Until the next Repug government shears off the budget. Then she's homeless, along with the scientists testing her.

?? She lives with her parents until she is an adult. Then she gets a job. Being one of only 10 neanderthals in the world I suspect she'd have no shortage of job offers.

Where does "the next one" come from.

Whenever you try cloning you have to do thousands of attempts to get a few results. You're not going to kill off any of them - so odds are you are going to get more than one.

At medical research prices, nobody's going to wait 18 years to ask for legal consent.

Which is like claiming that no one's going to ask for legal consent to separate very rare conjoined twins. "But they're so RARE!"

Neanderthal parents?

?? No, modern parents. There are no neanderthals.

 

[orcot]

Whenever you try cloning you have to do thousands of attempts to get a few results. You're not going to kill off any of them - so odds are you are going to get more than one.

A realistic fear their isn't much you can do abouth all the attempts that get rejected in the first couple of weeks of the pregnancy but their better not be to many that actually get born with lifespans of less then a year. They should most definitly excersise this technique before they attempt to clone a neanderthal to the point that success is expected

 

[typical animal]

A realistic fear their isn't much you can do abouth all the attempts that get rejected in the first couple of weeks of the pregnancy but their better not be to many that actually get born with lifespans of less then a year. They should most definitly excersise this technique before they attempt to clone a neanderthal to the point that success is expected

I am blown away by the enormity of your intellect.

 

[orcot]

I am blown away by the enormity of your intellect.

In the ethics about cloning Neanderthals both in this thread and others nobody seems to mention whats probably the biggest issue and that is birthdefects because the technique isn't understood perfectly. I'm sure nobody in this forum is a expert in cloning but if you look at any other case you can predict that deformities are a real possibility.
(case in point http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrenean_ibex)

I'm sorry if I made it look dumb but (at least to me) that's the elephant in the room

 

[kwhilborn]

This thread title suggests this is about ethics and not about the science, as some seem to overlook.

If it does become possible to produce a single birth defect free Neanderthal, as we must assume for an ethics debate, I would think ethics would not matter.

If a scientist could do this they would and if they don't then someone else will. I do not think it would boil down to morality unless as some have suggested creating just one perfectly healthy specimen is in question.

A neanderthal Man, Woman, or Child would be a celebrity in our world, especially if he/she could be taught some social graces or even rudimentary speech or sign language. They would star in movies, have product launches and be sought after by beautiful models. I do not think we would see them suffer.

A Harvard scientist has said it would be possible to clone a Neanderthal baby from ancient DNA if he could find a woman willing to act as a surrogate.

The process would not be legal in many countries and would involve using DNA extracted from fossils.

George Church, a genetics professor at the Harvard School of Medicine, said that the process was possible and that far from being brutal and primitive, Neanderthals were intelligent beings.

They are believed to be one of the ancestors of modern man and became extinct 33,000 years ago. He added that altering the human genome could also provide the answers to curing diseases such as cancer and HIV, and hold the key to living to 120.

He told Der Spiegel, the German magazine: "I have already managed to attract enough DNA from fossil bones to reconstruct the DNA of the human species largely extinct. Now I need an adventurous female human."

The professor claims that he could introduce parts of the Neanderthal genome to human stem cells and clone them to create a fetus that could then be implanted in a woman.

Church helped start the Human Genome Project that mapped human DNA and is well respected in the field. His comments will surprise most geneticists who believe that cloning humans is unacceptable.

Church said: "We can clone all kinds of mammals, so it's very likely that we could clone a human. Why shouldn't we be able to do so?"

He added: "Neanderthals might think differently than we do. We know that they had a larger cranial size. They could even be more intelligent than us.

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/health/...erthal+using/7853158/story.html#ixzz2KHPxqoWF


Possible access to Genetic/Akashic memory. Possible disease cures. Could they even have some psychic ability?

Any woman willing would likely be rich beyond imagining.

 

[Larry Johnson]

Hey gang, thanks for the replies.

No.

Why? Even if we could what would we learn from doing such a thing?

We could learn about the origin of sentience and civilization.

You're actually suggesting that the people who do it won't even tell the Neanderthal that they are different or why they are different?

How would you feel if you were told scientists created you as an experiment? I would much rather believe I was a retarded human and that my adoptive parents were biological parents. Also not telling the public protect the neanderthal from harassment.

Parents are allowed to have children even if they know it may suffer from a genetic disease or down syndrome. Why can't I have a neanderthal baby? I'll feed it.

 

[orcot]

How would you feel if you were told scientists created you as an experiment? I would much rather believe I was a retarded human and that my adoptive parents were biological parents. Also not telling the public protect the neanderthal from harassment.

Parents are allowed to have children even if they know it may suffer from a genetic disease or down syndrome. Why can't I have a neanderthal baby? I'll feed it.

However close to homo sapiens they are the aren't homo sapiens that will be pretty clear for starters they grew fasther then modern humans making them stand out at even a early age, they also have rather high pitched voices that could be acceptable for women but would sound realy strange for males. It would be like not telling your kid that he/she's a dwarf they will figure out fast enough that they are different.

 

[kwhilborn]

As I said. If it can be done it likely will be done.

Here is something to add to the debate though. A female would be easier to monitor procreation wise, but what if the neanderthal man gained star status, money, fame, and a following of adoring women. Would we forcibly sterilize him? Could one DNA baby start a whole new class of humans?

I think such a baby should be made public for their own protection so they don't live in a cage, but I also think they should be forcibly sterilized which would be denying him/her rights.

They would likely stand as tall as Tom Cruise and have a bigger brain than us. I could see women liking a Neanderthal man, but cannot see men liking a Neanderthal woman.

A new breed of humans simply out of scientific curiosity. It could happen. There's a Book in there somewhere writers.

 

[billvon]

Here is something to add to the debate though. A female would be easier to monitor procreation wise, but what if the neanderthal man gained star status, money, fame, and a following of adoring women. Would we forcibly sterilize him?

Not unless you are OK with the government forcibly sterilizing you.

Could one DNA baby start a whole new class of humans?

Not really. You'd just be adding some very unique DNA to the pool. (assuming that any resulting human/neanderthal hybrids are fertile, that is.) It would be diluted with time.

They would likely stand as tall as Tom Cruise and have a bigger brain than us. I could see women liking a Neanderthal man, but cannot see men liking a Neanderthal woman.

There's someone for everyone. Lots of men like fat women, for example.

 

[kwhilborn]

There is the problem.

You already consider him/her human. We sterilize animals.

Although I do not see cruelty in creating a Neanderthal as he/she would likely see fame, fortune and celebrity status, I think their children would just be ostracized freaks. I think it would be cruel.


Now getting into the science fiction... (I mentioned book in last post)

MAYBE this creature with the larger brain can control our minds with his will and could make presidents bow to his whim.. hmmmm.

 

[billvon]

You already consider him/her human.

They would be. They would be born to human parents, and have all the rights that any other person would.

Although I do not see cruelty in creating a Neanderthal as he/she would likely see fame, fortune and celebrity status, I think their children would just be ostracized freaks. I think it would be cruel.

Well, many people thought that interracial children born in the 1960's would go through the same sort of opprobrium. But that didn't last long, and the willingness of the first interracial couples to do that paved the way for today's tolerance of mixed-race people.

MAYBE this creature with the larger brain can control our minds with his will and could make presidents bow to his whim.. hmmmm.

And perhaps even sell car insurance!

 

[orcot]

This thread title suggests this is about ethics and not about the science, as some seem to overlook.

If it does become possible to produce a single birth defect free Neanderthal, as we must assume for an ethics debate, I would think ethics would not matter.

If a scientist could do this they would and if they don't then someone else will. I do not think it would boil down to morality unless as some have suggested creating just one perfectly healthy specimen is in question.

Their will never be such a point I believe we will move from a point where birth defects are a unacceptable risk to a point of designer baby's. Don't forget that their DNA is 99.7% identical to ours and you can probably have a lot of fun with those 99.7% imagen that those 99.7% came from someone who's genetically predispositioned to be good at sport say for example someone like usain bolt but then you can ad genes from the t8 aboriginal you can will end up with SUPER neanderthalers