Eternal jail, or capital punishment...which?

Quantum Quack

Life's a tease...
Valued Senior Member
IN an old superman movie three villians where convicted and sentenced to exist in a two dimensional prison for ever ( well I think it was for ever)

They were transformed and the sentence was carried out.

Is this justice, to sentence a person to eternal jail? With out any redemption, rehabilitation or future release?

In a conversation about the old issue of capital punishment etc, this was but one of the many issues surrounding it.

I am sure capital punishment has been discussed before but maybe another go at it would be good for us new members of the forum.

What is more humane justice, capital punishment or eternal damnation?
 
Let's compare apples and apples.....

Capital punichment:

- Quick
- Higher chance of convicting an innocent person
- Relatively Low cost
- No redemption
- No rehabilitation
- No comfort for family who can't see person again.
- No risk of killing again.

Eternal Jail
- Slow
- Lower of chance of convicting an innocnet person....After many years, new evidance may exonorate the person.
- High cost
- No redemption
- No rehabilitation, and even if the person is rehabilitated, there is no use, because they are not being let out....rehabilitation
- Some comfort for family who know that person is alive and can be seen.
- Some risk of escaping and commiting more crime.

I wish some mathematician can compile all the pros and cons and do a statistical cost benefit ratio to identify for us the better alternative.
 
Capital Punishment vs life sentence:
-Once you execute someone, there's no UNDO if found that the executed is innocent
-Most executions does not happen for years after the death sentence is handed down
-With all the legal wrangling, etc etc etc, it turns out to be more expensive than life sentence.

The only time I see justification, is the following: If society can not be protected from such murderer short of putting that murderer to death, then we have a duty to put that murderer to death! In this age, we have the means to protect society from almost all of such murderer.

While we're on the subject of wrongful conviction: I say that purgery that can unjustly sentence the defendant to long sentence or death SHOULD BE PUNISHABLE by matching sentence and not a day shorter than such sentence.

That's all and may God help all of us.
________________________
God Loves All Of Us
 
Is this justice, to sentence a person to eternal jail? With out any redemption, rehabilitation or future release?

They wanted to take over the planet and rule it with an iron hand. A worthy reason to lock them away indefinetly.

then we have a duty to put that murderer to death!

So killing is then justified?
 
Originally posted by sargentlard
They wanted to take over the planet and rule it with an iron hand. A worthy reason to lock them away indefinetly.
Let me put it this way, have you found a way to unkill someone. Bet'cha you haven't! Where's the justice for that one murdered?



Originally posted by Sargentlard
So killing is then justified?
Let me put it this way, I rather see that murderer put to death than to let him/her murder ANOTHER innocent person.

Overall, I am opposed to the death penalty, but I am equally opposed to letting the murderer having another opportunity to murder another innocent person.

That's all and may God help all of us...
___________________________
God :) Loves All Of Us
 
Killing is too easy of an way out. Complete social isolation is more penal.

Let me put it this way, have you found a way to unkill someone. Bet'cha you haven't! Where's the justice for that one murdered?

But they weren't put to death, they were locked away for etrenity.Far worse than death.

Overall, I am opposed to the death penalty, but I am equally opposed to letting the murderer having another opportunity to murder another innocent person.

But either way someone dies in your view.

That's all and may God help all of us...

That he may.
 
Hello sargentlard: I am not for the liberal use of the death penalty, but have it available for extreme cases where the public would be in danger if such murderer has a chance of having a good opportunity to do additional murders. I am in agreement with the Virginia juries in condemning John Muhammed and life sentence to boy Malvo. Not in agreement with condemning Gary Sampson for reasons he did not murder plenty of folks and he attempted to turn himself in before and did successfully turn himself in later. John Muhammed was a heartless, calculating murderer who will continue to murder if given additional opportunities and we really have no way on Earth to guarantee that he won't somehow be given the opportunity again.

We can argue till Hell freezes over, but this is where I stand. If we can un-murder the murder victim, then maybe I'll think differently.

That's all and may God help all of us...
___________________________
God :) Loves All Of Us
 
God is locked away eternally, with nothing but the little humans running around his ankles, and those he only made out of dust. If he made the universe, how long was he trapped before, with nothing?

Who put him in this prison?

What unimaginable thing must he have done to deserve it?

This may explain why the universe does not make sense to Christians... it was made by a being in total isolation, eternal imprisonment. It was made to ease his fear and loneliness, like a child talking to a stuffed bunny all alone in the dark, empty world.

Perhaps he loves us because we are all that he has. Perhaps we are all that lies between him and what he now thinks of as insanity...

GOD LOVES ALL OF US!!! HE HAS TO!!!
 
Originally posted by The Cager
Let me put it this way, have you found a way to unkill someone. Bet'cha you haven't! Where's the justice for that one murdered?

Excuse the hell out of me...Pardon please, but..aaah, your standards of justice are sortta incomplete. The reason being is that you don't know, neither do I, the first thing about death. Death, being as natural as birth, and as compulsory as birth to every single life can not be so so bad as you all try to make out of it. Afterall, we all die, the innocent and the guilty, the ugly and the beautifull, the young and the old....This is of course unless you all are afraid so much of death for some undisclosed reason.....My favorite quote is from the movie Spartakus when he was sentenced to die....He was asked, Are you afraid of dying...His answer was:

"Not anymore than I was afraid to be born"
 
Originally posted by BigBlueHead
God is locked away eternally, with nothing but the little humans running around his ankles, and those he only made out of dust. If he made the universe, how long was he trapped before, with nothing?

Who put him in this prison?

What unimaginable thing must he have done to deserve it?

This may explain why the universe does not make sense to Christians... it was made by a being in total isolation, eternal imprisonment. It was made to ease his fear and loneliness, like a child talking to a stuffed bunny all alone in the dark, empty world.

Perhaps he loves us because we are all that he has. Perhaps we are all that lies between him and what he now thinks of as insanity...

GOD LOVES ALL OF US!!! HE HAS TO!!!


Wow, look at Bigbluehead standing on top of god's head and analyzing him like he even have a clue when his next fart will come....Wow, Bigbluehead must be god's official jail keeper.

In the future, please try to supress your manic episodes....It's not good for your reputation.
 
Hello Flores: I am speaking of protecting society from further injustice being inflicted against additional members of this society when I say that some will have to be put to death if we have no other avenues to do so. We may never be able to right the wrongs done, but it's a matter of practicality on why I have such a stand.

That's all and may God help all of us...
__________________
God Loves All Of Us
 
My personal position on this is that I could not commit a person to execution and yet something has to be done.

I think of it as that the person on trial has decided by his crime to reject society, it's rules and it's privledges.

I would say to the convicted criminal: "you the criminal have a choice, execution or permanent exile from any social support or facility."

What I mean about social suppoort I mean it in absolutum. The criminal, if he chooses exile will be taken to an environment that is devoid of any social support, no food, no tools, no power, no water given etc. with out the option of returning.

If the criminal chooses a desert instead of execution then the sentence is one given by nature or God and not by man. In that mankind has just simply removed it's support and nature will take it's course.

At present this is my thoughts on the issue of capital punishment.
 
Last edited:
Eternal Jail.

For a few reasons.

Capital punishment is legal murder in itself. We punish the accused by putting him/her to death, usually for a crime of murder, so how can we justify the Government killing the accused when the Government themselves do the same act? It's hypocritical. The idea of an eye for an eye is something that the law disagree's with. You'd be punished if you stole from someone who stole from you (as revenge or the notion of an eye for an eye). Yet how can it be justified that the State kill a person because they've killed a person? Isn't the State just as bad as the accused? Doesn't the accused then become the victim once they're strapped in and injected with a lethal cocktail or zapped with so much electricity that they're internal organs fry? And the accused becomes an even bigger victim if they are in fact innocent and proof of that is not found prior to their execution or the court has decided to ignore pleas for a new trial to bring the new evidence to light.

Capital punishment is final and there are so many cases where the innocence of the accused is proven after he has been killed. There are also many cases where the accused can't afford the proper legal representation and as a result, they get what can only be classified as an unfair trial and are put on death row as a consequence. There have been cases whereby the accused is on death row and due to the lawyer's incompetence, actual witnesses of the crime were not called to the stand until after the trial and the Court of Appeal have rejected the appeals on the ground that the lawyer should have known or done better. So as far as they are concerned, the fact that there is proof the accused may in fact be innocent of the crime does not come into it. The case of Joseph Amrine is a perfect example of the criminal system's failure and the resulting conviction and death penalty being imposed wrongly.

There is no proof that it acts as a deterrent, on the contrary, many are saying it does not:
Authors John Sorenson, Robert Wrinkle, Victoria Brewer, and James Marquart examined executions in Texas between 1984 and 1997. They speculated that if a deterrent effect were to exist, it would be found in Texas because of the high number of death sentences and executions within the state. Using patterns in executions across the study period and the relatively steady rate of murders in Texas, the authors found no evidence of a deterrent effect.
The site quoted here has many research findings on the level of deterrence of the death penalty.

The academic journal Crime and Delinquency examined more than a decade of executions in George W. Bush's Texas, and found "no evidence of a deterrent effect." Other research has reached the same conclusion, most notably a 1997 study of crime in over 500 counties nationwide. Cops agree with Reno too: A 1995 poll by Hart Research Associates found that just 1 percent of police chiefs believe the death penalty significantly reduces the number of homicides. Even one of the country's most conservative, pro-death-penalty judges, Alex Kozinski of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, has acknowledged that little evidence backs up the deterrence argument.
This site also provides a lot of articles on the death penalty and is worth a read

I'm not even going to go into the issues regarding racial bias in regards to the death penalty as I'm sure you are aware that problems do exist and if you want to know, then you can look it up yourself.

Proponents of the death penalty sing it's praises, but the pure simple fact that innocent men and women are put to death by the legal system, and their innocence comes to light after their death, shows that the system is failing. Had the accused been in jail then they could be released. It's cold comfort that the accused may have been incarcerated for many years before their innocence is proven and they may have lost the better part of their lives. However they are still alive and able to be released. What happens now is that after the person is put to death and their innocence is proven, the State apologises and that's that. Death is final, there is no coming back and there is no release. There is too much of a chance that an innocent individual will be killed and for just that alone, I'd prefer life imprisonment to the death penalty. Life imprisonment means that you're still alive and if your innocence is proven, then you can be released. You can't have that with the death penalty. There's no coming back. Taking away the innocent's freedom is a terrible and disgusting thing, but taking away their life for no reason other than it was a mistake is even more inexcusable.

While it may be quick and cheap, the costs (discussed above) far outweigh the benefit of the death penalty. That's my opinion anywho :).


:eek:
 
Quantum Quack said:
I would say to the convicted criminal: "you the criminal have a choice, execution or permanent exile from any social support or facility."

What I mean about social suppoort I mean it in absolutum. The criminal, if he chooses exile will be taken to an environment that is devoid of any social support, no food, no tools, no power, no water given etc. with out the option of returning.

Wow, can you book me a vacation to this peacefull location away from any social support. Actually it sounds like fun...Could you make sure you send my way a couple of cutie criminals so we can form our new criminal family and country.
 
If you can't do the time then don't do the crime :D

It's not the criminal's decision to what he wants. He did the crime, he's the criminal. Plain and simple. If it's bad enough for Eternal jail or the capital punishment then allow the judge to decide which one is suitable. It's not the judges fault that the criminal did what he did, it was the criminals fault and he deserves such punishments. Plus if he did something that bad and was executed then he would go into an eternal jail in hell anyways wouldn't he? ;)
 
It's not the criminal's decision to what he wants. He did the crime, he's the criminal. Plain and simple. If it's bad enough for Eternal jail or the capital punishment then allow the judge to decide which one is suitable. It's not the judges fault that the criminal did what he did, it was the criminals fault and he deserves such punishments. Plus if he did something that bad and was executed then he would go into an eternal jail in hell anyways wouldn't he?

Yes but what happens if after the 'criminal' has been executed and new evidence comes to light that he/she was in fact innocent? Who burns in hell then? That's one of the main issues with this topic I guess. Innocent people are being killed by the State.
 
neither of these ways are useful and they don't repay their debt to society maybe they should instead of being killed put to work making bricks or something of the sort for the rest of their lives there twisted minds can be healed by hard work, they actually do something useful, profitable and it gives the inmates something to do other than die or rot away in some cell.
 
As I said, if we can't protect this society from a murderer short of putting that murderer to death, then we have a duty to put that murderer to death. Given that we have a mean to protect society from over 99% of the convicted murderer short of executing that convicted murderer, then we should NOT put that convicted murderer to death. Chances are that someone who is actually innocent would be executed because he/she are not likely to pose as someone we have a duty to put to death.

Places like Texas makes liberal use of the death penalty and I think that is unfortunate for almost all of them do not need to be executed in order to protect society...

That's all and may God watch over all of us...
__________________
God Loves All Of Us
 
Bells said:
Yes but what happens if after the 'criminal' has been executed and new evidence comes to light that he/she was in fact innocent? Who burns in hell then? That's one of the main issues with this topic I guess. Innocent people are being killed by the State.


If this is the case then he shall live forever and bathe in the happiness of heaven :cool:
 
coluber said:
neither of these ways are useful and they don't repay their debt to society maybe they should instead of being killed put to work making bricks or something of the sort for the rest of their lives there twisted minds can be healed by hard work, they actually do something useful, profitable and it gives the inmates something to do other than die or rot away in some cell.

That's already happening. Ever drove by and saw some people in vests collecting garbage along the highway with a box van parked on the shoulder behind them??? okay, those are prisoners who have commited minor offences, theft, DUI, ect...

For murderers, I suggest that we use them as lab rats for medical students to experiment on them new drugs...Infect some of them with AIDS, west Nile, mad cow, and use them as research lab for the good of humanity.
 
Back
Top