Eliminate Welfare Checks? WHaaaaa????

BrainWithAGun

Registered Member
Sould we eliminate welfare checks for unemployed slobs? Or should we keep letting the liberals dip their greedy hands into the pockets of the general public to pay for the unemployed person's alchahol and cigarettes.... err... I mean food.
 
what if you couldnt get a job cause of whatever reason

because they want someone younger or in the case of the US not gay ect

your stuck in the position that you may own a house and cant pay the morgage anymore

you may have children and cant pay for there textbooks and schooling

you may not be able to pay for your OWN schooling or to see a doctor anymore

there are a LOT of things that the dole pays for apart from food

electricity to run refigorators so ur food doesnt spoil and you end up a burden on the health system

show a little compassion for those who arnt as lucky as you are
 
Originally posted by Asguard
what if you couldnt get a job cause of whatever reason

Disability pays for that.

Originally posted by Asguard
because they want someone younger or in the case of the US not gay ect

It dosent matter how old you are you can still get a job and McDonalds if its that desperate.

Originally posted by Asguard
your stuck in the position that you may own a house and cant pay the morgage anymore

HUD can pay for that.

Originally posted by Asguard
you may have children and cant pay for there textbooks and schooling

Thats free.

Originally posted by Asguard
you may not be able to pay for your OWN schooling or to see a doctor anymore

There are free clinics

Originally posted by Asguard
there are a LOT of things that the dole pays for apart from food

Like drugs

Originally posted by Asguard
electricity to run refigorators so ur food doesnt spoil and you end up a burden on the health system

HUD pays for that.

Originally posted by Asguard
show a little compassion for those who arnt as lucky as you are

I know those that arent as fortunate I have worked for them. They arent that bad off and giving them a check in the mail dosent help anything. I have personaly seen unemployment abused over and over by my cousin's dead beat husband.
 
I don't think that the majority of people on welfare are using it to better themselves. I think that most see it as a way to not work. So, as for compassion, I feel for people in a poverty-stricken position. But why should the public be forced to pay for someone else's troubles?
 
Tell you what. You try looking at it from a welfare reciepant's viewpoint. And I don't mean from an intelectual standpoint, get some good reallife experience with being homeless and jobless and living at the bottom of society. Then come back and ask the question.

We pay for welfare for several reasons. First it's the moral thing to do to help your fellow human being when they need a hand. There are some people who stay on welfare and never bother trying to get a job true enough, every system gets abused by some. Its there for the honest people who won't abuse it as well as a last resort.

As for why not get a real job? Working at $5.15 and hour doesn't pay much, even at 40 hours a week. If you have kids, well you can't survive on that, especially if you live in a city. If you get another job or 2, then your kids are at home alone with no parental guidance. Welfare helps in that situation as well.
 
Well, call me a totally unsensitive, unhumane person, but people need to help themselves. Then we can all live in peace and skip and frollick and play.
 
Originally posted by Krassos
Tell you what. You try looking at it from a welfare reciepant's viewpoint. And I don't mean from an intelectual standpoint, get some good reallife experience with being homeless and jobless and living at the bottom of society. Then come back and ask the question.

Do you know any homeless personaly? Money only hurts them more. They are almost all drug addicts. Go to any homeless shelter and ask "Should I give him money?" If they are some what competant they will say no.

Originally posted by Krassos
We pay for welfare for several reasons. First it's the moral thing to do to help your fellow human being when they need a hand. There are some people who stay on welfare and never bother trying to get a job true enough, every system gets abused by some. Its there for the honest people who won't abuse it as well as a last resort.

I do help out my fellow man. Its not the state that should do it though. People feel it is their right and not somebody helping them out. Some are incompetent and I will help them out.

Originally posted by Krassos
As for why not get a real job? Working at $5.15 and hour doesn't pay much, even at 40 hours a week. If you have kids, well you can't survive on that, especially if you live in a city. If you get another job or 2, then your kids are at home alone with no parental guidance. Welfare helps in that situation as well.

200 bucks will get you by. I have gotten by on less then that. Kids can watch themselves and if you still can't you always have your family to turn to.
 
Right. If you got nothing, you've got nothing to lose. While you're living in the happy carefree dream world where everyone is capable of helping themselves, someone in the real world who used to get welfare, but then had it cut, will decide to steal your car.
 
Originally posted by Salty
Do you know any homeless personaly? Money only hurts them more. They are almost all drug addicts. Go to any homeless shelter and ask "Should I give him money?" If they are some what competant they will say no.

200 bucks will get you by. I have gotten by on less then that. Kids can watch themselves and if you still can't you always have your family to turn to.

200 bucks? What the hell magic pixie dust do you smoke? $200 wouldn't even pay for rent for a single month in a small(1 room, that's not 1 bedroom, that's 1 room) apartment in a small town. That doesn't count such commodities as food and electricity and transportation. Then if you're a parent you have food and clothing to buy for your child(ren) as well.

And as for letting your kids mind themselves, well that's the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard of. I mean my God you must have been dropped on your head as a child. Children need guidance and attention, otherwise they tend to get into trouble and do bad things. A lot of problems in this society are caused by people leaving their kids to their own means.
 
that 200 bucks is for 1 week not 1 month :rolleyes: And still HUD will cover that if you have to have it. I know a nice place in my town that rents for 300 bucks 2 bedrooms and kitchen.

Now about your children needing constant guidance. elementry schools have after care then thier is jumpstart and the YMCA. So if you are talking about 6th grade children can't look after themselves where your parents that over protective? I took care of my little brother when I was 7. Its not that big of deal if you raise your kids well.
 
A) Daycare is expensive. You still need to be around to guide your kids.
B) To get a place like that so cheap you must live out in the middle of no-where so that just raises the cost of transportation.
C) You forgot taxes. Tops you get around $170. Which isn't enough if you have more than yourself to take care of.
 
Originally posted by Krassos
A) Daycare is expensive. You still need to be around to guide your kids.

See those places I listed they are all non-profit organizations. All else fails you have church and family to relly on.

Originally posted by Krassos
B) To get a place like that so cheap you must live out in the middle of no-where so that just raises the cost of transportation.

The place I was talking about is no more then 15 minutes from my cities down town. Its just that the house is really really small. Even though HUD can still pay for a closer home. ;)

Originally posted by Krassos
C) You forgot taxes. Tops you get around $170. Which isn't enough if you have more than yourself to take care of.

You don't have to pay that much of taxes if you have dependents.

You can keep comming up with scenarios. Do you know anybody on welfare? I did they abused it. I worked for them for a while. We were forced to not rent to people on welfare after a while because alot of time they would damage the place or sell drugs inside the home.
 
Originally posted by Salty
See those places I listed they are all non-profit organizations. All else fails you have church and family to relly on.

The place I was talking about is no more then 15 minutes from my cities down town. Its just that the house is really really small. Even though HUD can still pay for a closer home. ;)

You don't have to pay that much of taxes if you have dependents.

You can keep comming up with scenarios. Do you know anybody on welfare? I did they abused it. I worked for them for a while. We were forced to not rent to people on welfare after a while because alot of time they would damage the place or sell drugs inside the home.

HUD to me seems to be a form of welfare. In the same way food stamps are. As for taxes that was only at a 15% tax rate. The usual taxrate is at around 30% in this nation I believe. If you make so little money the government usually does tend to cut you a break(as it seems to when you make a lot of money).

A 15 minute drive each way is about 2.5 hours a week. Not good when gas prices are on the rise, and it's hard on the car after a while. All for $170 a week take-home.

As for leaving your kids with the church or with family, not always an option. You still need to be there for your kids some time, you can't let someone else raise them.

http://www.henryholt.com/readingguides/ehrenreich.htm

An interesting book, at least the part I read. Got depressing though. Sorry I couldn't find a better link.
 
Originally posted by Krassos
We pay for welfare for several reasons. First it's the moral thing to do to help your fellow human being when they need a hand.

I don't see anything particularly moral about government agents taking property from its rightful owner and distributing it to other members of society.


Originally posted by Krassos
There are some people who stay on welfare and never bother trying to get a job true enough, every system gets abused by some. Its there for the honest people who won't abuse it as well as a last resort.

Fewer "systems" would result in fewer abuses.
 
Originally posted by Krassos
HUD to me seems to be a form of welfare. In the same way food stamps are. As for taxes that was only at a 15% tax rate. The usual taxrate is at around 30% in this nation I believe. If you make so little money the government usually does tend to cut you a break(as it seems to when you make a lot of money).

A 15 minute drive each way is about 2.5 hours a week. Not good when gas prices are on the rise, and it's hard on the car after a while. All for $170 a week take-home.

As for leaving your kids with the church or with family, not always an option. You still need to be there for your kids some time, you can't let someone else raise them.

http://www.henryholt.com/readingguides/ehrenreich.htm

An interesting book, at least the part I read. Got depressing though. Sorry I couldn't find a better link.

You still skiped a major part. You are just giving me scenarios. I can do that too. You don't give me any real exsperiances. Have you ever worked with anybody on welfare?
 
I lived in the middle of the ghetto. I can honestly tell you that about 80% of people on unemployment are abusing the system. Most have jobs the entire time under the table. Then they find a temporary job when they need to, and leave as soon as they are eligable for benefits again. A few even collected under 2 different names (not a clue how).

My neighbor was a single mom with 7 kids and atleast 4 different fathers. She believed birth-control was immoral, but sleeping around was perfectly fine. The government paid ALL here living expenses, including a 3 bedrom house. She even had 2 incomes in the house because 2 of here cousins lived in her basement and had roofing jobs. She only moved because she had another kid and they moved her into a 4 bedroom house! She is teaching her kids the same 'morals'. Her 15 year old daughter was pregnant when they moved.

I worked at a supermarket for 2 1/2 years. About 50% of the people with food stamps (back before Access) came in wearing gold chains/necklaces and very nice clothes. On the rare ocassions when they had enough bags for me to help carry them out, their rides were usually nicer then mine.

In general, the entire system is ripe for abuse.
 
Well, it seems to me that the problem with just about any socialist system is that it penalizes people for working hard and being productive, and then tries to make it ever more appealing to simply not work at all. When society vilifies those who earn their money, and caters to those who simply don't work (Be that don't want to, or cant, for whatever reason is irrelevant) no real good can come of it.
 
i KNOW the unemployment system here because i had to use it to get a job and i also been exposed partully to the other side

there is a system called work for the dole here which is costing the goverment MORE than the dole because they pay for EVERYTHING, equiptment, materials, everything if your project gets aproved (i know this because they did work at the scout park i help out at)

this is COMPUSERY as is getting your book signed at a certain number of job interviews to SHOW that your trying to get work

now the first can be replaced with schooling and the dole becomes austudy with different rules (ie u dont have to find full time work)

there IS also rent assistance avaliable (which doesnt help a 40 year old single income family with 4 kids with a morgage)

schooling is NOT free
you may not have to pay fees but uniforum, stationary and text books cost my family $500 in my last year of high school

if dad hadnt been working thats a HUGE cost

university costs $500 FLAT in union fees, student services ect
EVERYONE has to pay that PLUS books ect and uni text books arnt cheep

one KNIFE for MY corse cost me $200
there were 5 knives i need plus uniform, steel, fork and other equiptment

plus food, plus books, plus NORMAL clothing, plus house
 
Clinton largely fixed US welfare. You can get it only if you are a single parent, and then it phases out over 5 years. I know someone with 5 kids who works several jobs since her welfare expired. The gravy train has (mostly) left the station.

Charity is another story. An acquaintance of mine opened her trunk to reveal a bunch of rotting perishables. A friend of hers had picked the lot up at a food bank, all for free. She forgot to unload the groceries, so sorry, too inconvenient to retrieve, told my acquaintance to throw them out. She’ll go get another free load. Included were two pre-made cut-in-half turkey & swiss sandwiches, complete with napkin, the kind that cost $US 4 that you could make yourself for under $1. This situation is the norm I think. I’ve never met anyone who used a food bank who wasn’t obviously abusing the privilege.

Every year around Thanksgiving the director of the now-mega food bank in my state pleads for donations, claiming dire ever-increasing need, even when the economy was going gangbusters! HELLO FOOD BANK DIRECTOR, YOU’RE GIVING AWAY FREE FOOD. Of course the “need” will increase!

There’s a couple in Seattle who feeds the homeless gourmet meals weekly. I read today that a spa for the homeless opened in Chicago. Free pedicures, manicures, etc. But only if you don't pay rent!

The Seattle city council recently debated whether to give housing subsidies for teachers, so they can afford to live where they teach. An audience member raised the obvious question: “What about me, I make the same as a teacher and I work just as hard. Why should only teachers be subsidized?”
 
and of course when billions of your money is spent on weaponry, nary a protest is raised.

Citizens Against Government Waste (CAGW) today condemned Congress for passing a $78.5 billion War Supplemental Appropriations bill filled with pork-barrel projects._ Although President Bush had requested the legislation to finance the war in_Iraq_and other anti-terrorism provisions, lawmakers shamefully seized the opportunity to tack on funds for 29 unrelated projects, which cost more than $348 million. Here is a list of the projects that were included in the legislation: (Congress Pigs Out in War Supplemental Bill)

CAGW IDENTIFIES RECORD $22.5 BILLION IN PORK
 
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