Electric cars are a pipe dream

Some people think we will get EV's up to snuff once a breakthrough or 2 is accomplished.I guess some of are the opinion because we waited so long in treating EV technology with any seriousness,this is the reason why were behind at this time,So we need to play catch-up.

If EV's don't pan out for whatever reason,what about running electricity either in the road or above head? I'm talking something like how the little hot wheels run on the race track.Or overhead like some of the trolleys and trains do.That way there would be continuous juice flowing.The EV would still need it's own batteries for use once they got off the electric track.

What say you?
 
The start up costs would be huge.
You'd have to do the infrastructure first to get anyone to buy one of the cars and that would take a massive amount of up front money and time before you could even think about selling the cars.
It's sorta like the problem with pure EVs, since there aren't that many public places to conveniently recharge, but the cost of putting up sufficient recharging stations to make EVs practical is a small fraction of the cost of putting electricity in all the major roads.
Which is why the Leaf is being introduced at the same time they are putting in thousands of recharging stations and the majority of the initial sales are being directed to those same locations.
 
X-man

Powering roads has safety concerns. There is one proposal, though, that might appeal to you. It has been seriously suggested that induction charging systems could be used on sections of road. As a BEV runs over such a section of road, the induction currents act to charge the batteries. A tiny fee is automatically taken off the owner's credit card. After crossing a number of such induction sections, the batteries are again at full charge.
 
X-Man2 said:
Some people think we will get EV's up to snuff once a breakthrough or 2 is accomplished.I guess some of are the opinion because we waited so long in treating EV technology with any seriousness,this is the reason why were behind at this time,So we need to play catch-up.

If EV's don't pan out for whatever reason,what about running electricity either in the road or above head? I'm talking something like how the little hot wheels run on the race track.Or overhead like some of the trolleys and trains do.That way there would be continuous juice flowing.The EV would still need it's own batteries for use once they got off the electric track.

What say you?
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Why don't we just use trolleys and trains then, and stop all this messing about with consumer products which are a practical solution to only one problem, how to make a big profit, not how to build an efficient transportation system for the 21st century.
 
X-Man2 said:
If EV's don't pan out for whatever reason,what about running electricity either in the road or above head?
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Some safety issues there if it's in the road. Overhead (catenary) can work but you have issues with maximum height. The lines would have to be several feet higher than the tallest truck, so you'd be driving around with 10 foot high pickup shoes. (Or have some complex system that would telescope the pickup shoes that high while driving at 60mph.)

Here's an option:

In the leftmost lane, near uphill sections, have a few rapidly moving chains embedded in the barrier on the left hand side of the road. (Think roller coaster drive chains.) These move at the equivalent of 60mph, which is about 80 feet a second. EV's drive up to them, engage them with a one-way dog, and get a boost up the hill. Since all EV's can brake regeneratively, this will charge the battery during the portion of the trip that once discharged the battery the most severely (i.e. uphill.) And since they will continue to charge on the next downhill, you need these only in specific sections of road, rather than the entire road.

The above technology is about 80 years old; lots of roller coasters use them. Another alternative are moving cables in the road. That technology is about 150 years old, so we've got some experience there. (And Chicago used to have hybrid electric/cable car light rail systems, so we even have experience with _that_.)
 
Exactly the same problem

The start up costs would be huge.

You'd have to do the infrastructure first to get anyone to buy one of the cars and that would take a massive amount of up front money and time before you could even think about selling the cars.
 
Could just run electric wiring down the middle of the roads, which isn't all that hard to do then let the cars have a way to pick up the charge as they drive , like the electric trains do. The problem is transformers that will be needed along the way every so often to regulate the power output as the lines grow longer away from the power station. There are other problems as well but its just a thought.
 
cosmictraveler said:
Could just run electric wiring down the middle of the roads
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You mean flush with the surface of the roads? What happens if it rains? What happens if someone crosses the road and touches them? What happens if a steel belt from a tire touches them?

Commuter rail have been working on these problems for decades. They've come up with two basic solutions:

1) Protected, elevated and covered "third rail" that gets the rail away from the ground. The return path is then through the rails, so you'd need two third rails for a car. (fourth rail?)

2) A catenary above the road. Again, return path is through the rails, so for a car you'd need two catenaries. Electric buses use these in some cities.
 
It's a tough problem to solve,if were going to stick with EV's I think 2 things will have to happen.Range will need extended another 100-200 miles and in addition we will need battery changing stations.We will probably need changing stations as numerous as gas stations are now.(Or close to it)I'm only talking about cars and light medium sized trucks.Semis? Who the hell knows what to do with those.

My guess for the future ETT(Evacuated Tube Transport) will become the all encompassing way of transporting both people and cargo.Unfortunately we won't see this in our lifetimes as I imagine it's at least 100 yrs away.
 
spidergoat said:
Then the real problem is building residences outside of the reach of available transportation.
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Not China's mistake. China is building 100 new cities in the interior, each for a population of ~1,000,000 during this and the next 5-year plan. The first finished was "White Horse village." The BBC has done a series of documentaries on it starting in 2005.
Here is 29Nov 2010 link to recent update text and videos:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11863108
If you want to understand modern China (the good and the bad) watch it. Many of the former peasants did not want their village changed and to be moved into high rises etc. but had no choice. Their former tiny plots are now parts of large efficient farms, not rural "suburban sprawl" anymore.

Sample text:

"... "I can't keep a pig or grow any vegetables, I have to buy everything from the shops," 70-year-old Jin Zhongzen complains. {Billy T insert: he gets rent from his former farmland and higher pay jobs are now available in the growing city.} Mr Jin is a man whose life has been utterly transformed.

Three years ago he lived in a mudbrick courtyard house in White Horse Village, a sleepy village in a verdant valley in Wuxi County, western China. He was one of several hundred million Chinese farmers still eking out a living on tiny plots of land,... Today, Mr Jin can still be found in the same valley, but home is now a sixth-floor apartment. The valley floor has been concreted over and White Horse Village has been demolished, replaced by a city - Wuxi New Town.

What has happened to Mr Jin and to White Horse Village is emblematic of one of the most important stories of our time ... Five hundred million*** subsistence farmers were to be lifted from poverty and brought into the story of China's economic miracle by creating cities and jobs for them at home, rather than them being forced to travel to coastal China to get ahead. ..."

Now in China's coastal factories there is a sever labor shortage -10 to 20 % of the workers did not return from the interior after recent Year of the Rabbit holidays. China is going high rise and modern with fast, efficient, low-cost (to user), public transport etc. - brutally changing at a rapid pace, like it or not.
-------------
*** 500,000,000 -i.e. China is modernizing >1.5 times the US population from subsistence farmers to world competitive urbanites in a decade! An unparalled event in human history!
 
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Syzygys said:
I wish to educate the dreamers, that electric vehicles (EVs from now on) can replace combustion engine cars for mass transportation in the future. Just to make sure, we are NOT talking about hybrids, but fully battery powered cars.
EVs have limited usage, mostly because of range and difficulty to charge. Their range hasn't really improved in 100 years! Oh yes, there is the price issue too, they are not cheap!!

Sure, they can be used for small range city dwelling, but if green people are dreaming that in the future millions will be buzzing around in EVs, well, they have a rude awakenings coming.
Not to mention that battery power will not drive heavy trucks or machinery. I will also mention that since the electricity does come from coal burning power stations, the enviromental footprint is also very high for EVs, so there is no overall saving for Mother Earth.

One can dream that one drives into an eelectric charging station and charges in 5 minutes, then be able to drive 300+ miles, but it is just not happening...

Maybe we should go to Mars instead... Don't get me wrong, I would love to speed down the highway by 100 MPH quietly in my cool electric car, but I also live in reality, and a reality check is long time due for dreamers....

Any takers????
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I dont remember where i read it but i think maybe IBM is doing it. But new batteries for EC's are in development in research labs which would make batteries now look prehistoric and dramatically improve range. Just did a quick google search and came up with this article. http://www.infrastructurist.com/2011/02/28/new-research-scientists-claim-better-battery-for-electric-cars/
Also there is research to bring about a even better battery which they are calling high-density battery cells. Battery technology is improving incredibly fast due to cell phones and ect and the emergence of EC's and Obama's plan to increase them in the US.
 
Regarding electric buses:

http://www.detroittransithistory.info/PhotoGalley/Photos1950sB.html

I understand Japan is making the batteries on EV cars standard, by law, which is what the swapping-station idea would need to have to work.

But if we can find a way to get the batteries to charge rapidly...or even install overhead charging lines (ala the above linked trolley buses) in cities for people to run their cars off of...

Battery technology ain't mature, not by a long shot.

Basically, more public transport plus EV's would do for a lot of people...and maybe ethanol-powered, plug-in hybrids would do for those who live in the far boonies?

I think 50% of our population, or more, lives in urban areas, right?

Life's a whole lot cheaper when you're not taking care of a car...

Oh...we need more train trackage, stat. We can't keep using semi-trucks to ship freight...or rather that will become cost-untenable.
 
livingin360 said:
Battery technology is improving incredibly fast due to cell phones
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...and if you leave your cellphone out in the cold, it dies... Didn't I just quote from the Volt review that range dropped dramatically in the cold winter???
 
Syzygys said:
...and if you leave your cellphone out in the cold, it dies... Didn't I just quote from the Volt review that range dropped dramatically in the cold winter???
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The Volt's Battery powered range dropped in the cold, the vehicle range was not significantly affected though.

You want to see a nervous driver?

Check out the Leaf owner trying to get home on a cold night in the rain but stuck in a traffic jam.

That dude is sweating.

The lights, the wipers and the heater are all draining power even if he isn't moving.

Which is why the guy next to him in the Volt is not sweating.

Arthur
 
You stop at the garage, they use their robotic arm to remove the spent battery, and replace it with a charged one?
You stop at the garage and they pump out the battery fluid and replace it with charged fluid?

Though I think battery technology is going to come on somewhat. Defo enough to solve the issue. In fact, the need for batteries to get better (for motor vehicular transportation) is great because it is going to push forward the technology exponentially.
 
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