Egalitarianism

M

Michael

歌舞伎
Valued Senior Member
Can an Islamic society be Egalitarian?

Egalitarianism (derived from the French word égal, meaning equal or level) is a political doctrine that holds that all people should be treated as equals from birth.

Women are obviously not equal, slaves are obviously not equal and religous minorities are not treated equally. While our secular democracies may not have achieved an Egalitarian society, if it's a worthy pursuit, then I'd say we're on a better track of allowing for the social changes needed to get there.

Michael
 
Michael said:
Can an Islamic society be Egalitarian?

Egalitarianism (derived from the French word égal, meaning equal or level) is a political doctrine that holds that all people should be treated as equals from birth.

Women are obviously not equal, slaves are obviously not equal and religous minorities are not treated equally. While our secular democracies may not have achieved an Egalitarian society, if it's a worthy pursuit, then I'd say we're on a better track of allowing for the social changes needed to get there.

Michael
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Equal as in human rights, to be treated with respect, have access to opportunities. Not necessarily equal in ability, talent etc.

An egalitarian society would have nothing to do with religion except perhaps their interpretation of it as a link to implementing egalitarian laws.
 
Yes: if the Religion itself has its own set of Laws that compete or are above the State laws and these Religious Laws are discriminatory, then I do not see how society would progress towards an egalitarian society. If that is indeed a worthy ideal to try and achieve.
 
There has never been an Egalitarian society. The closest any society came to it was Pre-monarchy OT Israel.

Western society is a Plutocracy. That being a system ruled by the Rich for the benefit of the Rich and their descendants.

All the "reforms" are just cynical brain washing garbage given to the masses to make them believe they live in an equal society.

Capitalism is based on a simple foundation.

A minority of wealthy people underpay the majority for the services and labour they provide and maintain their wealth and privilege by using the difference between the cost of that labour and the benefit of that labour.

They call it a profit.

So our system is about a minority leaching of the majority. A Plutocracy.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
I don't think any theocracy will ever become a completely egalitarian society(or any other government really). It seems like that's what the 14th Dalai Lama wanted for Tibet, but obviously, that didn't happen. Were tribal societies egalitarian for the most part?
Adstar said:
There has never been an Egalitarian society. The closest any society came to it was Pre-monarchy OT Israel.

Western society is a Plutocracy. That being a system ruled by the Rich for the benefit of the Rich and their descendants.

All the "reforms" are just cynical brain washing garbage given to the masses to make them believe they live in an equal society.

Capitalism is based on a simple foundation.

A minority of wealthy people underpay the majority for the services and labour they provide and maintain their wealth and privilege by using the difference between the cost of that labour and the benefit of that labour.

They call it a profit.

So our system is about a minority leaching of the majority. A Plutocracy.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
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That post was much better than most of your religious BS.Why cn't you make posts like that more often so that everyone doesn't think all theists are complete idiots?
 
New Scientist as well as Discover Magazine had some nice articles about the development of Religion, God(s) and Morality.

The development of a concept of Gods was closely linked with the concept of understanding that other humans can have an idea of what you are thinking. This in turn, as I remember, led to a feeling of being watched and to morality and to Gods sort of simultaneously. Both on the back drop of intense hardwiring for positive selection in regards to group peer pressure and a need for a group leader.

All in all, it seems that many experiments tend to suggest morality is itself hardwired. Yet the idea of a watchful God, or even being primed that there is a watchful God, can cause some people in some personality group-types to act morally. BUT, interestingly, being primed with many of the types of stories in the Bible (specifically the OT) caused even religous people to act less moral. Interesting read. Take home message - morality is hardwired and religion can have a positive or negative affect on moral decision making depending on the types of Gods and myths the religions promotes.

Hateful vengeful Gods promote within a certain personality type less moral attitudes. Maybe we should rewrite some of the stories in OT and Qur'an as the data comes in?

What good is God?
 
The Marsh Arabs are probably as close to an egalitarian society as any Muslim society can be. To be truly egalitarian, the society cannot have a hierarchical leadership. This, too, is compatible with Islam since it doesn't officially have a religious hierarchy.
 
The real question is, can a Christian society be Egalitarian? No.

Michael, the answer is YES. Coming from someone who was born, lived, and visits Syria nearly yearly, I can tell you that everyone is born equal. Yes, everyone is equal. There are no slaves, women are equals, Christians are equals, Jews are equals

Seriously, where you get this kind of stuff is above me........
 
Michael said:
Can an Islamic society be Egalitarian?

Egalitarianism (derived from the French word égal, meaning equal or level) is a political doctrine that holds that all people should be treated as equals from birth.

Women are obviously not equal, slaves are obviously not equal and religous minorities are not treated equally. While our secular democracies may not have achieved an Egalitarian society, if it's a worthy pursuit, then I'd say we're on a better track of allowing for the social changes needed to get there.

Michael
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Slaves? Hm, where are the slaves? Religious minorities are treated very equally in Syria. Women are given all Men's rights in Syria.

Because in Syria, there is no Christian or Muslim barrier, there is only Syria!
It doesn't matter if you are a Christian Syrian, a Muslim Syrian, or even a Jewish Syrian, you are SYRIAN and that is what matters!
 
SkinWalker said:
The Marsh Arabs are probably as close to an egalitarian society as any Muslim society can be. To be truly egalitarian, the society cannot have a hierarchical leadership. This, too, is compatible with Islam since it doesn't officially have a religious hierarchy.
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Are women and men equal? Are non-Muslims (such as polytheists) treated identical to Muslims legally?

I suppose with no tribal leaders at all anything is possible?
 
Norsefire said:
The real question is, can a Christian society be Egalitarian? No.
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I totally agree. Christianity, like all monotheism, are not conducive towards egalitarian societies.

Norsefire said:
Michael, the answer is YES. Coming from someone who was born, lived, and visits Syria nearly yearly, I can tell you that everyone is born equal. Yes, everyone is equal. There are no slaves, women are equals, Christians are equals, Jews are equals

Seriously, where you get this kind of stuff is above me........
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Do women have equal representation under the law as men? I didn't know that? I thought that men could have more than one wife?


Norsefire, I didn't ask about "Syria" I asked about an "Islamic" society. According to Kadark Syria is not an "Islamic" society. Actually, there are none in existence. They don't exist.

I was under the impression that the Qur'an prescribes a special tax for non-Muslims and non-Muslims are not given an equal chance at all governmental jobs? For example, serving in the military?

Also, doesn't the Qur'an set out guidelines for Slave ownership?

I thought men could take more than one wife but women could not take more than one husband?

Is this correct?
Michael
 
Michael said:
I totally agree. Christianity, like all monotheism, are not conducive towards egalitarian societies.

Do women have equal representation under the law as men? I didn't know that? I thought that men could have more than one wife?


Norsefire, I didn't ask about "Syria" I asked about an "Islamic" society. According to Kadark Syria is not an "Islamic" society. Actually, there are none in existence. They don't exist.

I was under the impression that the Qur'an prescribes a special tax for non-Muslims and non-Muslims are not given an equal chance at all governmental jobs? For example, serving in the military?

Also, doesn't the Qur'an set out guidelines for Slave ownership?

I thought men could take more than one wife but women could not take more than one husband?

Is this correct?
Michael
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Yes, and no, you can't marry more than one person at a time, what kind of a sick freak does that?

Of course, and if they DID exist, like I said, all are equal.

Governmental jobs, of course! Can a non american become president? No.

Um, no. If you are referring to the "A slave must obey his master", remember, that ALSO appears in the Bible

But, also remember, THERE IS NO SLAVERY, so there is no need for such things

No, you marry once, and one at a time.
 
Norsefire are you referring to Syria or Islam?
Norsefire said:
Yes, and no, you can't marry more than one person at a time, what kind of a sick freak does that?
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I thought that Mohammad had more than one wife?

Norsefire said:
Of course, and if they DID exist, like I said, all are equal.
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I thought in Isalmic societies non-Muslims were taxed differently?

I was under the impression that the conquered people that remained non-Muslim were taxed differently.

The US President analogy would be more like, the USA was conquered by aliens with Religion X and any American who didn't convert could not be a President and had to pay a tax for not converting to Religion X.


Norsefire said:
Um, no. If you are referring to the "A slave must obey his master", remember, that ALSO appears in the Bible
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Yes the Bible, OT especially, is not prone towards egalitarianism.

Norsefire said:
But, also remember, THERE IS NO SLAVERY, so there is no need for such things

No, you marry once, and one at a time.
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So you are saying that Mohammad never owned any Slaves and also did not have multiple wives?

Interesting,
Michael
 
Michael said:
Norsefire are you referring to Syria or Islam?
I thought that Mohammad had more than one wife?

I thought in Isalmic societies non-Muslims were taxed differently?

I was under the impression that the conquered people that remained non-Muslim were taxed differently.

The US President analogy would be more like, the USA was conquered by aliens with Religion X and any American who didn't convert could not be a President and had to pay a tax for not converting to Religion X.


Yes the Bible, OT especially, is not prone towards egalitarianism.

So you are saying that Mohammad never owned any Slaves and also did not have multiple wives?

Interesting,
Michael
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I am referring to both.

Hmp, of course not! Wouldn't it be ironic to be a Prophet and commit exactly what you preach against?:confused:

No, because non-muslims would still be fellow [insert whatever here], so they'd be treated with equal rights

You are going off the assumption that only muslims would have rights. No, all PEOPLE would have rights

If you did not convert, good for you, you're still a Human being and are treated fairly

yes, that is exactly what I am saying, or at least the wives bit. I dont know if he had slaves

And, women have equal rights with men in Islam
 
Norsefire said:
None, quite simply. Christianity? No. Islam? No. Judaism? HAHAH WTF ARE YOU SERIOUS!...............No.
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Well, going off the assumption we must have some sort of religion I wonder which one (or maybe a new one) would be the best for society... ...
 
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