Education, Science, Religion

[Light Travelling]

I remember hearing that no more than 10% - 20% of the total population of western countries are educated to degree level. I cannot remember where that figure came from but if anyone can corroborate or refute that I would be pleased to hear.

What I have found is that the percentage of 24 year olds who have a science or engineering degree ranges between 2% and 10% and that this figure will decrease in the older population. (see below)

http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind02/c2/fig02-27.htm

Now I myself have a degree in engineering, so can said to be reasonably educated in a broadly science based subject, but when it comes to investigating some of the more abstract scientific theories and the math behind them; quantum mechanics etc, I freely admit that I struggle with it. Now it occurs to me what about the other 95% of the population who don’t hold degrees or who hold degrees in non science subjects. What about the large section of the population that doesn’t even complete high school. And this thought occurs;

For them believing in advanced scientific theory is just as much a leap of faith as believing in religion

Because there is no way they can verify these things as true, provable or even possible for themselves, they just have to take someone else’s word for it.

Now I have heard discussed on this forum before that religions will disappear when the level of education of the world population rises. But how high does it have to rise in order for the mass population to understand current cutting edge science theory? Do we need say 90% population that is educated to masters degree level in a science based subject?

Thoughts please..

 

[cosmictraveler]

I believe that some form of religion will be around for centuries to come. You won't eradicate a belief by saying that science can replace it. People will always need to have hope so they will continue to form groups that will make certain that religion doesn't fade away forever because they need something to believe in other than what man develops. :shrug:

 

[Lori_7]

our society and the reasons we educate would have to change a lot for that to be possible. education isn't getting more broad, it's getting more specialized, and the way we live now, it isn't prudent to have everyone specialize in cutting edge science.

 

[Light Travelling]

I believe that some form of religion will be around for centuries to come. You won't eradicate a belief by saying that science can replace it. People will always need to have hope so they will continue to form groups that will make certain that religion doesn't fade away forever because they need something to believe in other than what man develops. :shrug:

Maybe more than centuries, maybe always. Man apparently needs some greater purpose, greater reason for being than just survival and/ or making oneself comfortable. Science is very good at the ‘whats’ and the ‘hows’, but it doesn’t seem to fulfil the need mankind seems to have for a ‘why’ to it all..

 

[Adstar]

our society and the reasons we educate would have to change a lot for that to be possible. education isn't getting more broad, it's getting more specialized, and the way we live now, it isn't prudent to have everyone specialize in cutting edge science.

Yes. In the old days people who did receive a well-rounded education learned about a lot of different things but now because there is so much knowledge people are forced to learn a lot about a Specific thing, a Speciality, a narrow field of knowledge. Consequently people have less all round knowledge and are ignorant about many things that do not pertain to their area of expertise.

Less and less people have what i call Overview. They have less and less general knowledge from many areas that would allow them to see the over all picture and lead with wisdom. That’s why we are governed by so many highly intelligent and focused morons, who keep on making stupid decisions and leading this world to disaster.


All Praise The Ancient of Days

 

[Jan Ardena]

Light Travelling,

For them believing in advanced scientific theory is just as much a leap of faith as believing in religion

So what if some folks don't believe in advanced scientific theory?
How will this impact on everyones life?
Are you this concerned about geography?

Now I have heard discussed on this forum before that religions will disappear when the level of education of the world population rises.

You don't want to take to much notice of atheist fundies and their romantic idealisms. Religion can't disappear, it will only change.

But how high does it have to rise in order for the mass population to understand current cutting edge science theory?

Where is the advantage in this

jan.

 

[river-wind]

Those who lived during the late enlightenment period often remarked that religion would go extinct as people became better educated. In the US, it's ended up being the other way around.

Belief is easy. Knowledge is hard. Guess which people choose?

 

[wynn]

Belief is easy. Knowledge is hard. Guess which people choose?

Do you think it is really possible to just choose between belief and knowledge??

 

[Light Travelling]

Are you this concerned about geography? .

Geography doesn’t stand opposed to spirituality

Where is the advantage in this.

I am not saying there is, I am asking if people should understand things for themselves, or just accept someone else’s word for it.

 

[Light Travelling]

Do you think it is really possible to just choose between belief and knowledge??

I think belief precedes knowledge. If you don’t believe something is possible, you wont put the resource into obtaining knowledge of it.

However some people do seem to put a very strong distinction between the two and try to live their lives with the absence of all hint of beliefs..:shrug:

 

[spidergoat]

You don't have to understand advanced scientific theories in order to understand the basic methods used to verify them, and their profound difference from faith.

 

[river-wind]

Do you think it is really possible to just choose between belief and knowledge??

It depends what you mean. It is possible for both belief and knowledge to inform a decision, however, the two don't co-exist on a given point of fact in any useful manner.

You can believe that X is true; once you have more evidence to support X, you can then know that X is true (within the possible boundaries of that which can be known). You can't believe X while knowing !X without major cognitive dissonance, and it's pointless to believe X while you know X, as knowledge is a superset of belief.

 

[(Q)]

Dear me, it is quite funny to see believers talking about education when it something they abhor and see as a great evil in the world. In that respect, it doesn't matter how much education is offered to them, they'll flatly refuse it in favor of their scriptures. LOL!

 

[spidergoat]

Also, it's not like education is off limits to people. It's theoretically possible for anyone to learn advanced science, you don't have to accept anything into your heart. There are also many books written for the layperson.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Light Travelling,

Geography doesn’t stand opposed to spirituality

And science does?
How?

I am not saying there is, I am asking if people should understand things for themselves, or just accept someone else’s word for it.

Your OP doesn't reflect that.

jan.

 

[Light Travelling]

And science does?
How? .

Ok , I should re-phrase that. Science seeks to…

Your OP doesn't reflect that.
.

Jan, this from my OP

“Because there is no way they can verify these things as true, provable or even possible for themselves, they just have to take someone else’s word for it.”

Those who lived during the late enlightenment period often remarked that religion would go extinct as people became better educated. In the US, it's ended up being the other way around.?

it doesn't matter how much education is offered to them, they'll flatly refuse it in favor of their scriptures. LOL!

Should we say that religion is here for ever then, and the atheist has to accept to live along side it?

Also, it's not like education is off limits to people. It's theoretically possible for anyone to learn advanced science,

I agree, theoretically. But is it feasible, practical or sustainable?

 

[spidergoat]

...I agree, theoretically. But is it feasible, practical or sustainable?

It is feasible to try to understand something like evolution. It's practical. It is the task of scientists not just to do science, but to communicate their methods and results to the average person.

Unlike religion, it's methods and results are accessible to anyone regardless of preconceptions or worldview. It's terms are precisely defined.

 

[Light Travelling]

Dear me, it is quite funny to see believers talking about education when it something they abhor and see as a great evil in the world. LOL!

I am not in any way opposed to education, or science. I am all for it, for as many people as possible. Science is a great tool for describing the world around us, I just don’t think it has to be instead of a belief system or a sense or spirituality. For me the they can co-exist.

 

[Light Travelling]

It is feasible to try to understand something like evolution. It's practical. It is the task of scientists not just to do science, but to communicate their methods and results to the average person.

Unlike religion, it's methods and results are accessible to anyone regardless of preconceptions or worldview. It's terms are precisely defined.

I meant is it feasible, practical and sustainable for the majority of the world population to learn advanced science. If they dont (however well scientists communicate) they are taking someone else's word for it.

 

[(Q)]

Should we say that religion is here for ever then, and the atheist has to accept to live along side it?

You mean have it shoved down our throats? Probably, that is, unless the believers destroy our world first, which is the most likely outcome.