Education and the indoctrination of young people

[iceaura]

What he doesn't like, being a man of the left, is education being funded by its beneficiaries, rather than being paid for out of general taxation.

What he does, being a capable and honest male intellectual - also known, in the US, as a "leftist" or "man of the left" (if they are female, they are known as "feminists" rather than "leftists" for some reason) - is point to the consequences of having higher education entirely or largely funded by the wealthy or those borrowing to invest in their own wealth, rather than by its major beneficiaries.

In classical economics this is called a "market distortion", and this kind of market distortion leads to underinvestment in the good or service.

Illustration: This is the centennial year of Norman Borlaug's birth, March 25 is the date, and it may be worth noting that the main funders of Borlaug's education - the taxpayers of Iowa, Minnesota, and the US, with the earnings of their world trade and agricultural emphasis - got enough return on their investment to cover the entire cost of the University he attended for everybody who has ever attended since, probably several times over.

And they will never have that kind of investment return again, because the Borlaugs of today have to make other arrangements - for their educations, and then for their lives. When Borlaug was faced with the choice of taking Dupont's offer to double his salary rather than chance a new and uncertain kind of crop breeding program in backwater Mexico for low pay, 75,000 dollars in grad school debt piling up interest did not figure into the decision.

 

[exchemist]

What he does, being a capable and honest male intellectual - also known, in the US, as a "leftist" or "man of the left" (if they are female, they are known as "feminists" rather than "leftists" for some reason) - is point to the consequences of having higher education entirely or largely funded by the wealthy or those borrowing to invest in their own wealth, rather than by its major beneficiaries.

In classical economics this is called a "market distortion", and this kind of market distortion leads to underinvestment in the good or service.

Illustration: This is the centennial year of Norman Borlaug's birth, March 25 is the date, and it may be worth noting that the main funders of Borlaug's education - the taxpayers of Iowa, Minnesota, and the US, with the earnings of their world trade and agricultural emphasis - got enough return on their investment to cover the entire cost of the University he attended for everybody who has ever attended since, probably several times over.

And they will never have that kind of investment return again, because the Borlaugs of today have to make other arrangements - for their educations, and then for their lives. When Borlaug was faced with the choice of taking Dupont's offer to double his salary rather than chance a new and uncertain kind of crop breeding program in backwater Mexico for low pay, 75,000 dollars in grad school debt piling up interest did not figure into the decision.

Perhaps you're right. I am not expert on the financing of US university teaching. But tell me, who pays Chomsky's salary?

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

But tell me, who pays Chomsky's salary?

He is a professor emeritus at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. MIT is a private university so its financial information is not readily available.

But since he is one of the school's superstars, with fabulous name recognition, it's a good bet that his salary merely comes out of the general fund, with no objections.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

What he does, being a capable and honest male intellectual - also known, in the US, as a "leftist" or "man of the left" (if they are female, they are known as "feminists" rather than "leftists" for some reason) . . . .

You've got it so wrong that I can only assume that you don't live here.

Feminism is a crusade to improve the lot of women and girls. But feminists are by no means found only among the female gender. I'm a feminist and so are millions of other American men, especially those who came of age during the era of the Counterculture of the 1960s and 70s.

Although feminism is one of the key crusades of the Left, not all female leftists (or all male leftists, for that matter) are feminists. Many leftists look back on the Affirmative Action laws of that era (many of which have not completely expired) and note that their results were not uniformly salutary. Quite a few members of ethnic minorities, for example, were given jobs for which they were not qualified, matriculated into universities whose courses were way over their heads, elected into public offices that they were not prepared for, and otherwise pushed into positions they could not reasonably fill.

Not only did this result in inefficiency in the workplace, dumbing down of the classroom, and incompetence in politics, but it also spread the old stereotype of the ethnic minorities as simply less capable and competent than the rest of us. As one of my Latino friends put it, "If you see a dumb Mexican pushing a lawnmower, you're satisfied because that's the kind of jobs that dumb people are supposed to get. But when you walk into a government building and find a dumb Mexican behind the counter who can't answer your questions, you start to wonder if that's the best we've got!"

Women don't want this to happen to them. The "dumb blonde" stereotype is already a meme.

But back to the point, feminism is not limited to the liberals/Democrats. Plenty of conservative/Republican women would also like a little more equality--or maybe a lot more.

 

[Yazata]

“The whole educational and professional training system is a very elaborate filter, which just weeds out people who are too independent, and who think for themselves, and who don't know how to be submissive, and so on -- because they're dysfunctional to the institutions.” ---Chomsky

This is a pretty hysterical overstatement. He gives the impression of being, like Arne's Old Testament prophets, a rather excitable old heebie. It is just crass to claim the whole education system is an exercise in enforcing conformity. And demonstrably false, given Chomsky's own position.

Chomsky's a very famous philosopher of language who teaches/taught (perhaps he's retired now) at MIT. Indisputably, he's one of the foremost theoretical linguists of the 20th century.

But he's also a hard-core Marxist. Hard-core to the point where there wasn't an armed and violent revolutionary movement anywhere in the world that he didn't actively support, in its day. In my view, when it comes to politics, Chomsky's always been a bit of a nut-case.

What he doesn't like, being a man of the left, is education being funded by its beneficiaries, rather than being paid for out of general taxation.

I'm sure that's part of it. And like most Marxists, he pictures Western higher education as capitalist ideological indoctrination. This despite the fact that it's heavily weighted with aging baby-boomer professors who were students in the 60's-70's, were active in the so-called "movement", and who have moved many university humanities and social 'sciences' departments far to the left of the general public that they supposedly serve.

But then, one might wonder on what basis the average Joe is to be convinced his tax contributions are being appropriately spent. Chomsky speaks as if he and others should have the right to spend other people's money without any constraints on its apparent utility to society.

Chomsky, and those like him, believe that they understand the "little people's" best interests far better than the "little people" do themselves. The common herd, the so-called "sheeple", don't have a Ph.D. like he does. They aren't professors at elite universities. Unlike him, the "average Joe" is still held in the iron grip of evil capitalist ideology. But unlike these lesser people, he imagines that he, and those like him, are able to see through it. They know the (Marxist) Truth.

That's why the solution these days so often turns out to be not-so-subtle left-indoctrination of students by their professors. That isn't perceived by those professors as political indoctrination at all, it's supposedly anti-indoctrination. In the eyes of the academic left, the classroom is a crucial site of ideological struggle.

He might, rather, consider himself the lucky product of a society so enlightened as to fund - and even revere - people like Chomsky, who seem to spend most of their waking hours attacking the society that supports them financially.

(Sorry to be a curmudgeon, but these old lefties piss me off sometimes, with their enormous sense of righteous entitlement.)

The underlying vision is essentially elitist, hypocritical, anti-democratic and in my opinion not a little bizarre.

 

[Sorcerer]

Viva la revolución! Well done, MR! Posh hats off to you! Well somebody has to do this. May as well be me:

[video=youtube;yj3dIo8PDjs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj3dIo8PDjs[/video]​

Everytime I hear that song I think, 'Just as well, mate, 'cos you ain't gettin' any.'

 

[Magical Realist]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVqMAlgAnlo

 

[Saturnine Pariah]

All this talk of the inefficient and one track minded public school system and education in the United States has reminded me of two films that addressed this issues a few years back. Both took a in depth look at how dysfunctional the public school systems are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlnwm11d6II
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rmSldhnSDc


Overall, i felt " The War on Kids" was somewhat biased but it did raise several good points. I could prattle on how well written and researched "Waiting for Superman" was but I'll digress and say that it is definitely a wonderful film showcasing the laughable condition and state of America's public Education system.

 

[Sorcerer]

Did anyone ever see that film 'If...', set in an English public school? Quite good actually.

 

[Magical Realist]

For those interested in an unbiased account of Chomsky's views and politics, uncluttered with the typical rightwing ad homs of nutcase, leftist, elitist, hypocritical, old heebie, or Marxist, go here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky