Education and the indoctrination of young people

Magical Realist

Valued Senior Member
From the left: Is our education an indoctrination system?


By Dan Fournier


"Noam Chomsky, the linguistics professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who was famously declared by the New York Times as the “most important intellectual alive,” put it wonderfully when he said: “Students who acquire large debts putting themselves through school are unlikely to think about changing society. When you trap people in a system of debt, they can’t afford the time to think. Tuition fee increases are a disciplinary technique, and by the time students graduate, they are not only loaded with debt, but they have also internalized the disciplinarian culture. This makes them efficient components of the consumer economy.”

Professor Chomsky is absolutely right. After all, what is the education system? As one local professor said, the modern classroom is nothing more than an authoritarian, thought-controlling institution complete with a truth-inscription board, all designed to induce a psychological obedience to the State. Overwhelmingly, people do not go to universities for a sheer interest in learning. Rather, people spend tens of thousands of dollars for a piece of paper that creates a sense of productive legitimacy, a piece of paper whose sole purpose is to prove to corporations that they have spent a number of years in a brainwashing “school” that has molded them into efficient cogs in the capitalist system. In the end, is that not what an “education” is nowadays? Is it not merely an investment in economic conformity?

Is this what education has come to? Has it degenerated into an indoctrinatory tool of the bourgeois State into forcing the working class into a never-ending cycle of debt enslavement and brainwashed social conservatism? Has it lost the sacred position of being a means of pedagogic, intellectual maturity and collapsed into a propagandistic profit-making machine?

Education is no longer about self-improvement. It is a tool of the ruling class to induce a particular social mindset. It no longer produces revolutionary scholars; it produces endless cogs in the machine - cogs who, as if suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, worship their oppressor with nationalist fervor.

What can we do to fix this? What can we do to turn the State brainwashing camps back into institutions of academic self-betterment? Primarily, we would need a new, democratic economy based on collective production-for-use rather than individualistic production-for-profit. But short of that, the first thing that anyone should do is step back and look objectively at the situation - look at the social and economic roles that schools occupy in a regional economy, and understand the deeply political character that they have. Schools have the power to employ thousands and move markets, but they also have the power to be tools of mass sociological propaganda.

Understand the political space that the education system occupies, and question it. Question the role, existence, and authority of every aspect of our academic bureaucracy. Question why some things (such as the Predator drone strike program, which PolicyMic reports accidentally kills 50 innocent civilians for every one terrorist - and then question whether the State-designated “terrorist” is justified for his actions based upon objective conditions) are funded by tax-payer money, while others such as the school system are the victims of deep, brutal budget cuts.

To the new students, here is my message to you: do not be afraid to engage in revolutionary acts of sedition. Do not be afraid to challenge social and economic power structures that you have taken for granted your entire life. Be brave enough to question every professor, every moral, every social norm, everything that you have ever learned. Be and express yourself in a way that you choose, no matter what the system does to try and condition you to be otherwise. Question everything. Accept nothing.

Do not be afraid to fight for liberty, in the most radical and literal sense of the word, or to demand the unconditional emancipation of all of humanity from the terminal disease that we call capitalism. Do not be afraid to demand that education, healthcare, housing, and green energy production be of a higher economic priority than weapons development or war spending. But do question why the latter is of greater economic importance - is it for the righteous cause of spreading democracy and freedom to an oppressed, war-torn country? Or is it to secure imperial military hegemony in one of the most oil-rich regions on the planet, all in order to facilitate world domination from a police-state Empire?

Don’t be just a “liberal” or a “conservative,” but a warrior for social and economic justice - do not be afraid to fight the class war on the side of the working class. Do not be afraid to get engaged civically, discuss revolutionary politics, and debate anti-establishment philosophy. Do not be afraid to stand together in united solidarity and openly challenge power structures, and do not be afraid to question every aspect of the education you obtain here. In the end, at graduation, you may learn what there is to know in your given degree field, but it may be more important to know about what you know and place it in a larger anthropologic context.

Good luck, new students. We were all in your position once, and we stand in solidarity with you. I wish you the best in the coming weeks and look forward to seeing you all around the campus."--
 
Dunno about indoctrination... but school in the US is a fucking joke, especially primary school. We don't teach kids HOW to think critically, HOW to extrapolate from incomplete data, or HOW to research and solve a new problem. Rather, we drill them with facts and figures and then make them regurgitate said information back to us... and generally they remember this stuff just long enough to pass the test, then it gets dumped aside so they can remember the next set for the next test.

It's... terrible, to be honest.
 
Viva la revolución! Well done, MR! Posh hats off to you! Well somebody has to do this. May as well be me:

[video=youtube;yj3dIo8PDjs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj3dIo8PDjs[/video]​
 
As the resident Christian apologist these days, I don't want to go all preachy on you and mar my status as a 'possibly sane, reasonable believer, but...

I think every era has it's Hebrew prophet (it's 'mouthpiece' - remember when I raised everyone's hackles with that phrase?) and Noam Chomsky is ours. I know he is an agnostic or even an atheist, but you see, even that's appropriate to our post-modern era. Jonah ran full tilt away from his calling, and many others, although I can't think of who just now, were reluctant messengers. Another example of a fairly recent modern-day Hebrew prophet is Karl Marx, and again it matters not a mite that he was an atheist. God writes straight with crooked lines. (And if you can't understand that, you won't get much of what I have to say in these forums when I've got my Christer hat on). So don't jump all over me for thinking of Dr. Chomsky as The Prophet Noam. I admire him as much as anyone, and I wish him a long life. I think it's great that he's still going strong at his age. All I'm really saying then is: Appreciate this man! The New York Times is right. He really is the most important intellectual alive. Let's give him the satisfaction of heeding his many warnings and doing something about them in his lifetime.

God bless you Dr. Chomsky! You're my hero! :itold::worship:
 
There are no means of education that are devoid of ideology. From the first days of our lives, we are taught the mental frames of reference that are expected of us. What to call "me" and what to consider other. Language itself is full of these unspoken assumptions. I like Chompsky's point about debt, school should be free.
 
That's so cute - a liberal college kid discussing his liberal hero while complaining about being indoctrinated at his liberal university, while also complaining that what he's learning won't help him in the real world, which he knows nothing about, since he hasn't joined it!

I don't know whether to giggle or yawn.
 
All I'm really saying then is: Appreciate this man! The New York Times is right. He really is the most important intellectual alive. Let's give him the satisfaction of heeding his many warnings and doing something about them in his lifetime.

I feel like you could have said that without all the Biblical non-sequiturs.
 
To the new students, here is my message to you: do not be afraid to engage in revolutionary acts of sedition. Do not be afraid to challenge social and economic power structures that you have taken for granted your entire life. Be brave enough to question every professor, every moral, every social norm, everything that you have ever learned. Be and express yourself in a way that you choose, no matter what the system does to try and condition you to be otherwise. Question everything. Accept nothing.

Good advice.

Do not be afraid to fight for liberty, in the most radical and literal sense of the word, or to demand the unconditional emancipation of all of humanity from the terminal disease that we call capitalism.

Neither be afraid to fight against the consummate failure known as communism, or the conflict-ridden system called socialism.
Don’t be just a “liberal” or a “conservative,” but a warrior for social and economic justice - do not be afraid to fight the class war on the side of the working class.

And do not be afraid to fight against corrupt unions who would sooner destroy the industries they rely on.

Do not be afraid to stand together in united solidarity and openly challenge power structures, and do not be afraid to question every aspect of the education you obtain here.

And do not be afraid to question the values that I, as an instrument of that system of power, am attempting to force upon you.

(just to provide some balance)
 
I feel like you could have said that without all the Biblical non-sequiturs.
I'm pretty sure I can say whatever I like as long as it's not outright offensive and aimed directly at a certain party. And you can'feel' however you please. What's done is done. What's it to you? Why not channel your energy in contributing something to the Original Post rather than uselessly remarking on my view? I only mean that Chomsky is like a Biblical prophet in that he gets right into the face of the authorities and tells them off. If you don't appreciate my perspective, well, so what? Let's get on with the main discussion.
 
“The whole educational and professional training system is a very elaborate filter, which just weeds out people who are too independent, and who think for themselves, and who don't know how to be submissive, and so on -- because they're dysfunctional to the institutions.” ---Chomsky
 
“The whole educational and professional training system is a very elaborate filter, which just weeds out people who are too independent, and who think for themselves, and who don't know how to be submissive, and so on -- because they're dysfunctional to the institutions.” ---Chomsky
That may be true in high schools, but universities are different.
 
I'm pretty sure I can say whatever I like as long as it's not outright offensive and aimed directly at a certain party.

That isn't true. Off-topic posts are not allowed, at least in theory. While I appreciate a loose interpretation of the term, your diatribe about Chomsky as a Hebrew Prophet--as well as your follow-up post aboht God insisting that all prophets be Hebrew--certainly has nothing whatsoever to do with the subect, and appears self-serving.

And you What's it to you? Why not channel your energy in contributing something to the Original Post rather than uselessly remarking on my view?

Hopefully my commenta weren't useless. The point was to remind you that your constant Bible-thumping doesn't have a place in every thread. You could save it for its proper place...if it in fact has a proper place on a science forum.

I only mean that Chomsky is like a Biblical prophet in that he gets right into the face of the authorities and tells them off. If you don't appreciate my perspective, well, so what? Let's get on with the main discussion.

It isn't relevant to the discussion whatsoever how you view Chomsky in relation to Biblical archetypes. That's my point.

Now, to the OP, I've never accepted that the education system is some nefarious plot to control society, create worker bees, etc.. It's flawed, obviously, but I don't see how it benefits anyone as a conspiracy.
 
Very interesting post, MR.
And Dan Fournier encapsulates the problem well.
"Overwhelmingly, people do not go to universities for a sheer interest in learning. Rather, people spend tens of thousands of dollars for a piece of paper that creates a sense of productive legitimacy, a piece of paper whose sole purpose is to prove to corporations that they have spent a number of years in a brainwashing “school” that has molded them into efficient cogs in the capitalist system. "
Nicely written.
Never heard of him before, but my next task will be to google him.

I would add one point, in the form of a question.

Despite the advances in technology, which should surely make life easier,
it seems to be becoming harder and harder for ordinary people to achieve a decent lifestyle.
(Sorry, I'm being elitist here. I mean educated middle class people.)
Why should that be?

Added later.
He hasn't even written a book yet.
Come on Dan. Get with it!
 
Despite the advances in technology, which should surely make life easier,
it seems to be becoming harder and harder for ordinary people to achieve a decent lifestyle.
(Sorry, I'm being elitist here. I mean educated middle class people.)
Why should that be?

The info below I read in a New York Times article called The Rise of Anti-Capitalism by Jeremy Rifkin:

"More than six million students are enrolled in free massive open online courses, the content of which is distributed at near zero marginal cost."


This may be the way many of us get our education in the future, rather than going into prohibitive debt just to get a mediocre job.
 
“The whole educational and professional training system is a very elaborate filter, which just weeds out people who are too independent, and who think for themselves, and who don't know how to be submissive, and so on -- because they're dysfunctional to the institutions.” ---Chomsky

This is a pretty hysterical overstatement. He gives the impression of being, like Arne's Old Testament prophets, a rather excitable old heebie. It is just crass to claim the whole education system is an exercise in enforcing conformity. And demonstrably false, given Chomsky's own position.

What he doesn't like, being a man of the left, is education being funded by its beneficiaries, rather than being paid for out of general taxation. But then, one might wonder on what basis the average Joe is to be convinced his tax contributions are being appropriately spent. Chomsky speaks as if he and others should have the right to spend other people's money without any constraints on its apparent utility to society.

He might, rather, consider himself the lucky product of a society so enlightened as to fund - and even revere - people like Chomsky, who seem to spend most of their waking hours attacking the society that supports them financially.

(Sorry to be a curmudgeon, but these old lefties piss me off sometimes, with their enormous sense of righteous entitlement.)
 
Despite the advances in technology, which should surely make life easier,
it seems to be becoming harder and harder for ordinary people to achieve a decent lifestyle.
(Sorry, I'm being elitist here. I mean educated middle class people.)
Why should that be?

Because technology makes things smaller and faster, to make doing tasks quicker and more efficiently, effectively allowing us to do MORE in the same amount of time.

Do you think that the time saved from technological devices means we use the extra time to relax? That's why they call it the rat race. ;)

The problem is, you have to keep up with the Jones or you fall through the cracks. That's society for you. BTW, according to the way things work, the rat race is accelerating, so it's harder and harder to keep up.
 
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