Education and Religion

[Jan Ardena]

James R,

Inevitably. Multiple-choice poll questions are always blunt instruments to some extent, if for no other reason than that they force respondents to choose one of a set of pre-defined positions. To claim that the results are therefore completely invalid is not warranted, though.

I didn't say, or imply, that they were completely invalid, and not warrented.

No. The poll only shows that the more educated one is, the less likely one is to believe that the bible is the actual or inspired word of God.

Then why is this in the religion section, and not the Human Science section? To what degree do people not believe this?
And more importantly, what do those sub-divisions mean?

There are many possible reasons why this correlation may exist. I'm sure you can think of some. You have already thought of one.

If you did a study, asking people to answer the question ''Do you believe we came from monkeys'', most people would probably say no. Even scientists.
Yet you wouldn't accept that.

It's not a matter of how the pollsters define it. It's more a matter of how the respondents interpreted the question as phrased. The exact wording of the question is available, of course, if you're interested.

Yes.

So Gallup is a satanic organisation, is it?
Interesting.

What is a ''satanic organisation''?


jan.

 

[James R]

Jan Ardena:

I didn't say, or imply, that they were completely invalid, and not warrented.

I thought you were questioning the accuracy of the poll results.

Then why is this in the religion section, and not the Human Science section?

Because the person who started the thread thought that the Religion forum was an appropriate place to talk about a poll about the bible?

To what degree do people not believe this?
And more importantly, what do those sub-divisions mean?

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

If you did a study, asking people to answer the question ''Do you believe we came from monkeys'', most people would probably say no. Even scientists.
Yet you wouldn't accept that.

That would be a poorly-worded question. What does "come from" mean, for example? Who is "we"? Is this supposed to be a question about belief in evolution?

Maybe you ought to look at how pollsters usually frame questions regarding belief in evolution. Or, I can fill you in if you're interested.

Oh, and we didn't "come from" monkeys, so I don't see why I wouldn't accept that answer. :shrug:

What is a ''satanic organisation''?

I don't know. You were the one who described the poll or the pollsters or the people who answered the poll as "satanic". You tell me what you meant.

 

[Jan Ardena]

James R

I thought you were questioning the accuracy of the poll results.

I'm not sure an accurate picture can be got from this.

I don't see how you can gleen any truth from a poll which categorises
beliefs, as belief are personal. Unless of course it has a particular goal in mind.

Because the person who started the thread thought that the Religion forum was an appropriate place to talk about a poll about the bible?

Really?

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

In short, you can't measure personal beliefs.
I doubt that anyone takes the whole Bible literally, it doesn't make sense to. There may of course be some essenses they can identify with (initially), and then venture into other aspects which may currently be beyond their understanding. But do so with a view to greater understanding.

You don't just get up one morning and decide I'm going to actually, literally accept the Bible. Not even uneducated people do that.
In the Bible, everything is about experience, not just believeing what you are told. That is the purpose of parables, and metaphores. To teach. To approach spirituality with experience.

That would be a poorly-worded question. What does "come from" mean, for example? Who is "we"? Is this supposed to be a question about belief in evolution?

Now you see my point.
The subject deserves to asked from a proper perspective, not from a misinformed one.

Maybe you ought to look at how pollsters usually frame questions regarding belief in evolution. Or, I can fill you in if you're interested.

I have seen some, and I was dubious about the questions that were asked, and how jubilant the atheists were when strangely enough, it went all their way.

Oh, and we didn't "come from" monkeys, so I don't see why I wouldn't accept that answer. :shrug:

You may not have, but multitudes of others, who may see it as a loose terminology, that fits into evolutionary thinking, or, who may not have a full grasp of evolution, but believe it, may look at the alternative questions and feel that one is the closest to their opinion.

I don't know. You were the one who described the poll or the pollsters or the people who answered the poll as "satanic". You tell me what you meant.

In case you missed it, I also suggested propoganda.

I said the reason for the poll could be for propoganda purposes, to give rise to the idea that in light of education, God is not real, or true...
The reason for that could be satanic, anti-God, it could be anti-theist.


jan.

 

[sifreak21]

with your second quote reply your right jan ALL religious pick and choose what they like.

someone explain to me why the old testamet is no longer valid YET thats where the 10 commandments are from. if I misinformed please correct me. yet in the old test. I believe it says something along the lines of if your child disobeys then you should kill them. why isnt that still in effect?

i just think its funny how the religious say they believe all in the bible YET they only pick what they want out of it to live their life by and not all of it

 

[Arioch]

@Jan --

In short, you can't measure personal beliefs.

Sure we can, we just can't translate those measurements into a form that we can understand yet. We could take a million people and put them into an fMRI while they thought about their personal beliefs and boom, you've just measured their personal beliefs. And given that I can now play computer games with my brain I'd be willing to bet that basic "mind reading" will be a reality sometime in the next hundred years or so.

I doubt that anyone takes the whole Bible literally,

You've obviously never met my stepfather, or about a million other people that I know.

it doesn't make sense to.

On this, at least, we agree.

The subject deserves to asked from a proper perspective, not from a misinformed one.

Given that you have literally no idea what "perspective" the pollsters took, nor a single thing about their methodology, nor any idea what the question they asked was, how can you state that their "perspective" was misinformed? By fiat apparently. The full listing of data plus methodology plus the questions took me all of sixty seconds to find from the link in the OP. Rather than just declaring something and wallowing in your ignorance, perhaps you should try looking shit up.

I have seen some, and I was dubious about the questions that were asked,

Yes, and because it's a Gallup poll the questions are available for you to inspect. However it's not like this is the first study to show such an inverse correlation, there have been upwards of fifty that I know of, and(like this one) none of them speculate on any causes. The inverse correlation shown by the poll isn't what's really questionable here, the cause of the inverse correlation is still fair game though as we don't know why it's there yet.

and how jubilant the atheists were when strangely enough, it went all their way.

Funny, I didn't see that in this thread. I saw questioning followed by warnings of skepticism, but jubilation is something that I must have missed.

 

[aaqucnaona]

Its always good to see -

Btw, you can be on this side of the plateau only if you accept Thor in your heart. {Devils advocate - you can choose between Thor and Zeus].

I think our beliefs on God are like -

...Do continue, could not help horsing around.

 

[Mind Over Matter]

I thought this was a very interesting poll...

http://www.gallup.com/poll/148427/Say-Bible-Literally.aspx

Is it safe to say that the more educated the person the less likely they are to believe in the Bible?

I have to point out, your conclusion is quite faulty.

According to the results of the survey, it appears that the more educated the person, the more likely they are to believe in the Bible. Even among postgraduates, perception of the Bible as "the inspired word of God" far outweighed disbelief.

I would say, the more educated, the more nuanced perception one has of his/her belief in the Bible.

Medical doctors, who are among the best (at least, longest) educated individuals in America, show a high rate of religious belief and religiosity (regular religious attendance):

http://chronicle.uchicago.edu/050714/doctorsfaith.shtml

In terms of actual scientific knowledge, atheists and Christians are about the same. This study looked at Evangelical Protestants, not Catholics, but I suspect the results would be similar:

I recently conducted survey research comparing the most conservative of Protestants — those who identify with a conservative Protestant denomination, attend church regularly and take the Bible literally, or about 11% of the population in my analysis — with those who do not participate in any religion. The conservative Protestants are equally likely to understand scientific methods, to know scientific facts and to claim knowledge of science. They are as likely as the nonreligious to have majored in science or to have a scientific occupation. While other studies have shown that the elite scientists who work at the 20 top research universities are less religious than the public, it appears that the vast majority of people with workaday scientific occupations are like their neighbors, religiously speaking.

On most issues, there is actually very little conflict between religion and science. Religion makes no claims about the speed of hummingbird wings, and there are no university departments of anti-resurrection studies — scientists generally are unconcerned with the vast majority of religious claims and vice versa.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct...tants-20111010

 

[iceaura]

The OP offers a poll clearly showing correlations between self-reported educational levels and self-reported Biblical literalism, Biblical divinity, and Biblical fiction.

That correlation is positive, supporting the hypothesis that one may cause the other.

Whether education causes Biblical estrangement, or vice versa, is not indicated. The null hypothesis of coincidence is somewhat contraindicated, but the possibility of mutual, common, but otherwise unrelated cause is not.

I would have a difficult time with the poll, because the choices seem not mutually exclusive - divine inspiration for fables seems reasonable, literal but very incomplete and mistranslated and fragmented to the point of incomprehensibility seems reasonable, parts of the book one way and parts another seems reasonable, etc.

And the various other circumstances, events, etc - such as the high educational levels of Catholic priests - also support the implication: by explaining the circumstances, such as direct religious requirement, under which many of the highly educated have great faith in the Bible, it narrows even more the window of coincidence for the rest.

The search for influence might even focus on these extremes: one would expect few with no Biblical faith to enter into the educational rigors of becoming a Catholic priest, for example, so whatever percentage drop out after coming to view their former beliefs as errant, or find their way to acceptance of the priesthood despite loss of a personal deity or faith in Biblical divinity, could be laid to the effects of that education.

 

[GASHOLE]

Lolz christians.