Personally, I do not expect, nor demand, any tolerance at all. I live in the real world.
That was a QUESTION that I was asking of Magical Realist.
Duck Dynasty star canned for homophobic remarks
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Personally, I do not expect, nor demand, any tolerance at all. I live in the real world.
That was a QUESTION that I was asking of Magical Realist.
Bells
Staff member
Interesting. So you are against civil rights in general then?
I think Magical Realist has made his opinion quite clear on this site, so your question and the particular wording of your question is stupidly absurd. What do you hope to gain by asking something so distinctly stupid?
Bells, I stated that I did not "expect, nor demand tolerance".
I have no idea how you twisted that to infer any position that I may or may not have on "civil rights in general".
Bells, Magical Realist "has made his opinion quite clear on this site"! He made it "quite clear" that he "fully expected and demanded" that his position on having "no choice" in his "sexuality", and also that his "sexuality" be respected.
Bells, how you find the question of "tit for tat" or "quid pro quo" or even simply "reaping what you sow", "stupidly absurd" is beyond me.
Bells, what I had "hope(d) to gain" by asking Magical Realist, what you believe to be "something so distinctly stupid", was insight on what he was willing to GIVE in return for what he EXPECTED and DEMANDED to GET!
Bells, you have made your own opinion(s) quite clear on this site, by your STATEMENTS! So what you find "stupidly absurd" or "so distinctly stupid" as to the validity of my QUESTIONS is of no importance to me.
Bells, I would find it "stupidly absurd"/"so distinctly stupid" that a person would "expect" or "demand" the utmost respect for their own views while, AT THE SAME TIME, refusing to respect the views of another.
...acolytes...could've...but didn't...
Bells
Staff member
Do you understand what I mean by civil rights? Civil rights means that you do not discriminate against others because they are different. It means you accept them for who they are and do not treat them differently. As individuals, we expect to not be discriminated against. If you walk into a store, for example, you expect to not be asked to leave because of your race, colour, sexuality, sex, etc. And if you are refused to be served anywhere because of who you are and what you are, you would probably seek legal recourse because it is illegal to discriminate against others like that.
So perhaps, you should take some time to understand what it is you are even asking in this thread, because based on the following, it is clear you don't really have that much of a clue and instead you are typing my name and things in such a thing, over and over again, that it makes little to no sense.
I'll put it in small words.
Would you not mind at all if we refused to let you post on here for one reason or other, that was completely outside of your control and we refused to accept you for the way you were born? How about if society refused to accept you for how you were born and completely outside of your control?
Because the question you asked was stupid to begin with.
And yet, here you are expecting, nay, demanding, that I accept your question at face value and not view your comment and question as being stupid. In fact, you are getting upset and very defensive that I and others found your question and statement stupid and idiotic. If we were to apply your premise that you do not expect or demand tolerance for your question, then it is clear that we are free to tell you that we think your question is idiotic and Magical Realist and anyone else would be under no obligation to tolerate or even answer your stupid question.
Bells
Staff member
You mean like the fact that he keeps repeating it like a mantra at the start of every sentence...?
In my Post # 161, I stated :
In point of fact, I am not upset, I am not defensive.
I believe that you are "free to tell'" me exactly what you think of my question, regardless of any "premise" you choose to apply!
You are exercising that freedom to tell me exactly what you think of my question, by your Posts.
And I am tolerating your views, by not "getting upset" and not "getting defensive" at all, about those views.
Now, may I ask question?
Do I honestly have any other choice?
I don't have much tolerance for certain forms of sexuality. Pedophilia, for example. I expect people to keep that particular sort of sexuality in the closet - and if they don't, they should go to jail.
Bells
Staff member
Because the two can be compared..?
Since when has it changed from being a psychiatric disorder?
Or are you adding this to the bestiality comparison just for good measure, especially with the "in the closer" comment, just to drive that point home?
Paedophilia is a sexual orientation now?
Since when has it changed from being a psychiatric disorder?
Or are you adding this to the bestiality comparison just for good measure, especially with the "in the closer" comment, just to drive that point home?
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
Bigotry isn't a nonchoice. If someone believes homosexuals are moral degenerates that is choice they make. I used to believe all sorts of things based on what I was raised to believe, but when I got older I learned more and chose to believe otherwise. People are morally accountable for what they choose to believe and their attitudes towards others. They are morally accountable for the things they can change. And homophobic bigots CAN change.
All the more reason to educate those whose morality is so shaped and enlighten them regardling tolerance.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
Hi everyone. Happy New Year and a safe one!
A brief observation on this patently sophist 'Reverse Bigotry Defense' argument increasingly offered up by the bigots to claim 'equal freedom' status for their bigoted remarks/attacks against their victims and claiming 'equal high moral ground' for their victimizations.
In the past, most people had no access to proper balanced education, easy and immediate communication and experience further than their village precincts. In short, except for their immediate 'survival/subsistence mode' gains in practical knowledge to farm/trade etc, most people were born and died virtually ignorant of the greater world and its social constructs of different kinds/scales. They were easy meat for propagandists to exploit their ignorance and hence fears etc because they were like human mushrooms, kept in the dark and fed BS.
Fast forward to TODAY:
Where we have the Internet and immediate and ubiquitous access to information/communication globally. Where education in the 'developed world' gives a wider perspective on the world beyond one's immediate 'culture' and 'training' etc. Plus the bonus of HISTORY with all its warts and blemishes are available on any social/cultural subject/event under the sun that made us what we are today as a global social species.
Now consider:
Given that a person has the good fortune to be possessed of a reasonably healthy mind-brain; that they have grown and attained critical abilities beyond the 'juvenile' stage of development; that they have access to reasonable education/history/information social schooling/base; that they are able to learn and think critically about what they read/see/hear; that a person is not motivated by fear/hate/prejudice born of ignorance or mercenary/political motives etc, then is it too much to expect that a MODERN HUMAN BEING can 'rise above' their early childhood parental/church/cult/political ignorant/unbalanced propagandist programming?
The question becomes: Given all the above, is any reasonably healthy modern human ADULT (given they are in sound mind, and with independent BEYOND CHILDHOOD access to reasonable education/information/communication about any issue etc) fooling anyone but themselves by trying to claim that they 'have no choice' in their bigotry because it was inculcated into them via early childhood programming by parents/church/cult/political group etc?
In short, while ignorance and everything that flows from it can be remedied by education and social experience in ADULT years/stage, no amount of 'education' or 'choice' can change one's biological heredity (of 'hormonal development in the womb' resulting in possibly 'intermediate outcomes' where brain/body biological functions are not as well defined as in most as either male or female etc).
So the 'reverse bigotry defense' falls at two self-evident hurdles immediately; namely:
- Adult modern humans should be able to learn as they mature, and rise above early/faulty programming from whatever sources; else they are NOT modern humans at all, but rather throwbacks to the brute mentality of our ancestors who 'never grew up' in mentality or knowledge of the wider world/society; and...
- While early childhood mental programming CAN be altered by education and experience, one's biological state/functions CAN NOT be easily changed to the point that one 'has a choice' in the matter.
From all the foregoing it can be readily seen that an adult modern human's ignorance and bigotry is effectively a choice to remain as ignorant/bigoted as they were in childhood under control/ascendancy of parents/church etc, whereas someone born with particular 'non-standard' status of biological functions (ie, some are born geniuses, some are not, in a full spectrum of capabilities/potential, and some are born hetero-sexual and some not, etc) cannot do much about it (unless they are willing to medically/surgically mess with their 'inherited organs and hormonal balance' etc, with all the attendant medical risks of bad outcomes both psychologically as well as physiologically etc).
I trust my observations will be of some use to whomever is interested in a balanced view/discussion of this aspect and the attempt at 'reverse bigotry defense' introduced as an argument for retaining childhood programming in spite of access to global eduction/experience resources as an ADULT. Good luck to us all, irrespective of our luck so far in the natural/cultural/social evolutionary 'lottery' that is conception, birth, life, growth, enlightenment and death!
Well stated. I trust this will put to rest any further claims of reverse discrimination by those who won't tolerate bigotry. The thing the bigot defenders don't get is that we aren't imposing anything on bigots like bigots do to minority groups. We only seek to educate and enlighten them so that they don't hate people for their race, or sex, or ethnicity, or sexual orientation. We fight the war with knowledge and experience. When I hear people slander gay people I ask them how many gay people they know. Invariably not many. Familiarity opens us up to the common humanity in all of us.
There is an ironic twist to "Familiarity open(ing) us up to the common humanity in all of us", that is the old idiom : Familiarity breeds contempt.
from : http://www.spring.org.uk/2008/05/why-familiarity-really-does-breed.php
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
Actually familiarity breeds acceptance and the tolerance of other people's lifestyle. If you have contempt for someone getting to know them lessens that contempt.
So...did you read or familiarize yourself with the article, before coming to the conclusion that : "Actually familiarity breeds acceptance and..."
'Fraid not. In my case, it leads to said contempt being magnified.
"Understanding " and "Tolerance" are a euphemism for whole generations of fat thinkers who have talked themselves out of leaving their own armchairs.
Fat thoughts I cannot abide. Fat populations of fat people whose only ambition is to make everyone else as fat as they are.
Fat air one can't breathe.
"Mohammad" is the top baby name in Glasgow, Scotland, for 2013.
In your readiness to accept that understanding is the key to everything, you're making your obese self obsolete.
By the time you realise you need liposuction, it will be too late.
God, I wish I could have some vantage point after I die, from which I might observe your children drowning in your obesity.
You don't even know what pedophilia is. It's not sexuality. It's abusive behavior. Child abuse. Calling it sexuality and saying it's ok as long as nobody knows about it is asinine.
The worlds full of assholes. You're just one of the multitude.
Don't lump me in with all those others.
I'm an A-grade asshole.