Dozens of heretics killed of in Pakistan... yet, again.

[Michael]

Well it didn't take very long before a few dozen more Heretics were killed off in Lahore Pakistan.

One God
One Book
One Prophet

Why? What is it philosophically about Islam that brings out the worse most violent reaction in Pakistani people?

One God
One Book
One Prophet

Why are they so utterly intolerant of any other people's beliefs?

One God
One Book
One Prophet


As the world does a huge paradigm shift to multiculturalism One God, One Book, One Prophet isn't going to float.
Expect more and more violence.
and... expect more people to start doing something about it.

 

[Revolvr]

Those killed were Sufi Muslims. The Sufi is a mystical, perhaps gnostic variant of Sunni Islam. They tend to be looked upon with some suspicion among Sunni, but there are a lot of Sufi in Iraq and they seem to get along. These were probably killed by Punjab Taliban. Three suicide bombers, using vests packed with ball bearings to maximize casualties, detonated several minutes apart. One threw a few grenades among the worshippers before detonating himself.

The other sect targeted frequently in Pakistan are the Ahmadiyya Muslims; there were 2 Ahmadi mosques attached in the same area last May. This is the only Muslim sect which rejects Jihad. Thus they are seen as apostate by mainstream Muslims. The Ahmadis are in fact, banned from calling themselves Muslims by the Pakistani government, and they widely suffer discrimination and persecution.

In Islamic jurisprudence, it is prohibited for one Muslim to kill another. When Muslim sects kill each other they rationalize it by claiming the other sect is not a true Muslim.

 

[Michael]

Those killed were Sufi Muslims. The Sufi is a mystical, perhaps gnostic variant of Sunni Islam. They tend to be looked upon with some suspicion among Sunni, but there are a lot of Sufi in Iraq and they seem to get along. These were probably killed by Punjab Taliban. Three suicide bombers, using vests packed with ball bearings to maximize casualties, detonated several minutes apart. One threw a few grenades among the worshippers before detonating himself.

The other sect targeted frequently in Pakistan are the Ahmadiyya Muslims; there were 2 Ahmadi mosques attached in the same area last May. This is the only Muslim sect which rejects Jihad. Thus they are seen as apostate by mainstream Muslims. The Ahmadis are in fact, banned from calling themselves Muslims by the Pakistani government, and they widely suffer discrimination and persecution.

I agree it probably was organized by the Taliban - but, the general society is complicit as they democratically support Legalizing the Apostasy of Ahmadiyya Muslims. Pakistani Muslims do frequently perpetrate violence against Ahmadiyya Muslims as Apostate Heretics.

Once a person is convinced there are groups humans: some categorized as Good and others categorized as Bad - it's only one small step in justifying the Bad one's murder. As a matter of fact, IF it can be justified in ANY way, it will be.

This shows a fundamental flaw inherent in the Islamic philosophy.

In Islamic jurisprudence, it is prohibited for one Muslim to kill another. When Muslim sects kill each other they rationalize it by claiming the other sect is not a true Muslim.

Again, once a person is convinced there are groups humans: some categorized as Good and others categorized as Bad - it's only one small step in justifying the Bad one's murder. That's exactly what happens.

 

[lightgigantic]

Again, once a person is convinced there are groups humans: some categorized as Good and others categorized as Bad - it's only one small step in justifying the Bad one's murder. That's exactly what happens.

... kind of a no-brainer

 

[Michael]

... kind of a no-brainer

And yet here we are.

 

[Revolvr]

This shows a fundamental flaw inherent in the Islamic philosophy.
Again, once a person is convinced there are groups humans: some categorized as Good and others categorized as Bad - it's only one small step in justifying the Bad one's murder. That's exactly what happens.

Certainly true. Regardless of one's beliefs about Jesus, he well understood the human propensity to hate. Thus his emphasis on love of others (the second greatest commandment), living for others, turning one's cheek, and loving even your enemies, trusting only God to properly balance the scales between grace and justice.

 

[S.A.M.]

Amazing how sectarian strife, bombs and American occupation forces go together. Almost as if they were hand in hand.

After al Qaeda in Iraq, we now have the Taliban in Pakistan.

 

[Ja'far at-Tahir]

"Among them is a group who distort the Book with their tongues so that you think it is from the Book when it is not from the Book. They say, 'it is from Allah', but it is not from Allah. They tell a lie against Allah and they know it."-Al-Imran, 3:78, al-Qur'an.

 

[Michael]

Amazing how sectarian strife, bombs and American occupation forces go together. Almost as if they were hand in hand.

After al Qaeda in Iraq, we now have the Taliban in Pakistan.

Yes, it does seem to be that way. But, it's not really because of the American invasion per say. That only exposed tensions already there. Iraqis lived life under a strong arm dictator - one who ensured social stability at all costs. The central authorities in Pakistan have never been about to extend their rule over these north-western areas of land.

In short, if you really want to find out the truth, you'll have to do a little more thinking than: It's all the CIA's fault . You'll note in my New Hypothesis thread I'm looking into how Atheism may be one of the root causes (when combined with religious fundamentalism - like Ja'far at-Tahir's attitude as expressed earlier regarding the inferior faiths like Buddhism, Native American culture, Japanese Shinto and Hinduism).

"Among them is a group who distort the Book with their tongues so that you think it is from the Book when it is not from the Book. They say, 'it is from Allah', but it is not from Allah. They tell a lie against Allah and they know it."-Al-Imran, 3:78, al-Qur'an.

Wow Ja'far, didn't take long - I'm referring to the activation of your Islamic-meme anti-think program

:thankyou:

SAM's usually take a few days to weeks before it activates and all thinking ceases. Have to give that chick credit where credit is due!




Actually, Allah is commanding me to write you this, You were right all along Ja'far. Oh, the Glorious Qur'an has defeated me. Yes, that's right Ja'far at-Tahir, my tactic of getting you to think was ALL one big ruse ... for it is me, SATAN... God of the Underworld .. Bwwwaaaaa Haaa Haaa Haaaaa *cough choke gurgle*....But, by pulling out Your quote from the ALL POWERFUL Qur'an ... I must retreat back ... back ... BACK! ..... into the depths of the Underworld and Hell-Fire.... from whence I came.... Ahhh Ahhhhh I'm melting....
*Michael/Satan melts*
EEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
:mufc:




Do you see this SAM? This is the point. I mean, WTF? You're exactly the same. Granted, you can think a bit more, but in the end, you're just as much controlled by your amygdala. I wonder what's going on with some of the deeper CNS nuclei like the hippocampus and entorhinal cortex? I'm sure Ja'far at-Tahir's amygdala must be fired up at the mere thought Satan herself may be trying to steal his soul. What an interesting world to live in? What's it like? I mean, living Harry Potter and really believing it. Hmmmmm... reminds me of some of the characters I'd see regularly at this comic book store my mate worked in. Live the Dream!

 

[Hapsburg]

Why? What is it philosophically about Islam that brings out the worse most violent reaction in Pakistani people?

Christianity wasn't so different, centuries ago. Islam is about 600 years younger than Christianity. Give it time...hopefully a more global culture will breed tolerance and a muting of extreme religious fervour in even these regions.

Why are they so utterly intolerant of any other people's beliefs?

It's a monotheistic religion. Monotheism is, by its own definition, very black-and-white, very absolute, and very exclusivist. It's the natural result of having strong fervour in such a philosophy.

 

[lightgigantic]

And yet here we are.

Sure
With you identifying a general fault of human nature and some how trying to paint it up as the exclusive product of religion.
:shrug:

 

[Ja'far at-Tahir]

In short, if you really want to find out the truth, you'll have to do a little more thinking than: It's all the CIA's fault . You'll note in my New Hypothesis thread I'm looking into how Atheism may be one of the root causes (when combined with religious fundamentalism - like Ja'far at-Tahir's attitude as expressed earlier regarding the inferior faiths like Buddhism, Native American culture, Japanese Shinto and Hinduism).

Religious fundamentalism? Are you even fucking serious? I posted a surah from al-Qur'an to illustrate the possibility for coexistance amongst Muslims and non-Mulisms alike and you have a some bizarre bitch fit. Only you can take a religious message of tolerance and coexistance and try to argue against it. To say I'm a fundamentalist is patently absurd. To say you're a jackass with an inflated ego is spot on. Not only this, all this mental masturbation doesn't signfy a damn thing. I posted the verse from al-Qur'an to show that it IS possible for "Muslims," to claim they are doing actions in the name of Islam when they are not and are infact going against the teachings of Islam and that such things are even mentioned to al-Qur'an. You're fucking ridiculous.

Also, that isn't what I said at all.

 

[spidergoat]

That quote could apply just as easily to Sufis, giving justification for calling them something other than true Muslim.

 

[Michael]

Religious fundamentalism? Are you even fucking serious? I posted a surah from al-Qur'an to illustrate the possibility for coexistance amongst Muslims and non-Mulisms alike and you have a some bizarre bitch fit. Only you can take a religious message of tolerance and coexistance and try to argue against it. To say I'm a fundamentalist is patently absurd. To say you're a jackass with an inflated ego is spot on. Not only this, all this mental masturbation doesn't signfy a damn thing. I posted the verse from al-Qur'an to show that it IS possible for "Muslims," to claim they are doing actions in the name of Islam when they are not and are infact going against the teachings of Islam and that such things are even mentioned to al-Qur'an. You're fucking ridiculous.

Also, that isn't what I said at all.

Each to their own is fine - on a back drop of equality. Each to their own - on the backdrop of supremacy - is intolerant bigotry.

Now, maybe I missed something. You did say that Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism and Native American polytheism are all inferior belief systems when compared to your own? Islam was it?

Isn't it interesting that, when it's pointed out to you that the Sura you posted, when taken with the rest of the Qur'an, is perpetuating more religious intolerant - YOU take it personally. What's the matter Ja'far - can't take you're own advice/sura?

So? I'm a jackarse am I? What happened to: Each to their own? Hmmmm?

Yeeessss... Yeeeessss feel your anger young padawan....

Each to their own mate.
Funny isn't it?
YOU can't even follow the advice of your own Sura.

While you should now understand why it is flawed and faulty intolerant reasoning, don't worry, the actualization isn't going to happen to you. Islam-meme backup programs are presently shutting down all creative thought processes as you read these words.... ... .. . . . . . . . that's the nice thing about a lifetime of brainwashing. Don't have to worry about that pesty thing calling thinking.



Hey, by the by, I was wondering. Given Allah knows everything and can do anything - Can Allah forget? Learn? Be surprised at a joke? Have a sense of humor? Or is Allah just a big fat magical all-knowing Googleplex-TB hard-drive in the sky?

 

[Gustav]

You did say that Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism and Native American polytheism are all inferior belief systems when compared to your own? Islam was it?

you give all belief systems equal weight? one cannot be more developed and sophisticated than the other?

 

[Gustav]

Actually, Allah is commanding me to write you this, You were right all along Ja'far. Oh, the Glorious Qur'an has defeated me. Yes, that's right Ja'far at-Tahir, my tactic of getting you to think was ALL one big ruse ... for it is me, SATAN... God of the Underworld .. Bwwwaaaaa Haaa Haaa Haaaaa *cough choke gurgle*....But, by pulling out Your quote from the ALL POWERFUL Qur'an ... I must retreat back ... back ... BACK! ..... into the depths of the Underworld and Hell-Fire.... from whence I came.... Ahhh Ahhhhh I'm melting....
*Michael/Satan melts*
EEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
:mufc:

Do you see this SAM? This is the point. I mean, WTF? You're exactly the same. Granted, you can think a bit more, but in the end, you're just as much controlled by your amygdala. I wonder what's going on with some of the deeper CNS nuclei like the hippocampus and entorhinal cortex? I'm sure Ja'far at-Tahir's amygdala must be fired up at the mere thought Satan herself may be trying to steal his soul. What an interesting world to live in? What's it like? I mean, living Harry Potter and really believing it. Hmmmmm... reminds me of some of the characters I'd see regularly at this comic book store my mate worked in. Live the Dream!

are you fucking high on something?
calm the fuck down

 

[Ja'far at-Tahir]

Each to their own is fine - on a back drop of equality. Each to their own - on the backdrop of supremacy - is intolerant bigotry.

How on Earth is it intolerant bigotry?

Now, maybe I missed something. You did say that Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism and Native American polytheism are all inferior belief systems when compared to your own? Islam was it?

Let me respost your questions and my responses before we go any further:

Well? Are they as righteous as you? Are they going to enter paradise in equal numbers as Muslims? Is their faiths equal to yours?

I then responded by saying no and the question I was mainly responding to was will they enter paradise and is their faith according to Islam equal to Islam, the answer is obviously no. Polytheism is a sin (see: shirk). However this doesn't mean we can't find common ground, that they don't do good within the world or that we can't coexist. I'm sorry, I'm not Baha'i. I didn't say anything about their philosophies nor did I say they were inferior per se more that with Islamic theology polytheism is a sin and thus adhering to and worshiping other gods other than the one God would bar one from entry into paradise. That was your question, will polytheists and those whom don't worship God enter paradise? I said no, I also pointed out that the righteous members of ahl al-kitab ("people of the book") namely Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians will enter paradise.

But again all of this irrelevant in terms of coexistance. Despite theological differences it doesn't mean we can't infact find common ground, that they don't do good in the world and or that we can't coexist.

So? I'm a jackarse am I? What happened to: Each to their own? Hmmmm?

"To each the own," doesn't mean I can't insult when you are being a total tool. This isn't a reflection upon any one group but rather a response to your own individual behavior and attitude namely that of a tool.

Yeeessss... Yeeeessss feel your anger young padawan...

To think that I'm actually emotionally invested in this conversation is absurd.

YOU can't even follow the advice of your own Sura.

Actually, I can. Also, given the fact that any answer I give is automatically wrong and that you are saying that coexistance is not possible with Islam and that our philosophy is wrong and so forth, are you not infact saying Atheist philosophy and Atheism is superior? Do you not infact believe that Atheist philosophy is superior to Theist philosophy and that the idea and belief in God is not only wrong but deserving of ridicule? Are you no infact saying Islamic philosophy is inferior? Isn't "to each their own," under the backdrop of supremecy, intolerant bigotry in your opinion?

 

[Revolvr]

I said no, I also pointed out that the righteous members of ahl al-kitab ("people of the book") namely Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians will enter paradise.

What does it mean to you, to be a "righteous" Christian or Jew, deserving of paradise?

 

[S.A.M.]

Yes, it does seem to be that way. But, it's not really because of the American invasion per say. That only exposed tensions already there. Iraqis lived life under a strong arm dictator - one who ensured social stability at all costs. The central authorities in Pakistan have never been about to extend their rule over these north-western areas of land.

Kinda like the Jewish kapos who monitored the camps in Auschwitz or the torturers who run the rendition camps for the CIA. Its not the fault of the Germans or Americans. They are only providing the weapons, infrastructure and political backing. The real bad guys are those doing the down and dirty. In this case, because they're muslims. Or cubans. Or japs. Or gooks. Or reds. Or spics. Or kikes. Or ...

 

[Ja'far at-Tahir]

What does it mean to you, to be a "righteous" Christian or Jew, deserving of paradise?

Would word the "good," make it clearer? Those whom within this lifetime have strived for and do good and whom have forbade and stayed away from what is bad will enter paradise.