Time is a mathematical/logical construction from axioms.
See: http://www.thescienceforum.com/pers...deas/49067-constructing-time-four-axioms.html
See: http://www.thescienceforum.com/pers...deas/49067-constructing-time-four-axioms.html
Does time exist?
- Thread starter Asexperia
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Asexperia
Registered Senior Member
What makes you think that your opinion of time is a fact?
I disagree. The real time exists, but it is imperceptible or not observable.
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Asexperia
Registered Senior Member
PHILOCHRONY: FORMAL SCIENCE
The formal sciences are those that use forms or mental structures to explain reality. These forms can be: numbers, symbols and letters. Philochrony can not be an empirical science because time is imperceptible or not observable directly. We know time by the sequential changes that things experience.
Philocrohny helps to study time of:
1- Definitions (real time and sensory time),
2- The measurement of time (clocks, periodic intervals),
3- The past (memory) and the future (imagination). The past and the future are mental structures that help us explain time.
4- The sequential activity occurred or SAO, which is established by the experience of the subject. For example, in one hour there is a known SAO and we can differentiate it from the SAO of two hours.
Other formal sciences are: Mathematics and Logic.
--------- cp ---------->
past ........... future
cp = continuous present (real time)
The formal sciences are those that use forms or mental structures to explain reality. These forms can be: numbers, symbols and letters. Philochrony can not be an empirical science because time is imperceptible or not observable directly. We know time by the sequential changes that things experience.
Philocrohny helps to study time of:
1- Definitions (real time and sensory time),
2- The measurement of time (clocks, periodic intervals),
3- The past (memory) and the future (imagination). The past and the future are mental structures that help us explain time.
4- The sequential activity occurred or SAO, which is established by the experience of the subject. For example, in one hour there is a known SAO and we can differentiate it from the SAO of two hours.
Other formal sciences are: Mathematics and Logic.
--------- cp ---------->
past ........... future
cp = continuous present (real time)
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To your statement #4 . How is movement not involved ?
If you removed " time" . Would this change anythings natural movement ?
No . The measurement of the movement is no matter to the object its self .
Asexperia
Registered Senior Member
THE MEASURE OF THE FUNDAMENTAL MAGNITUDES
To measure is comparing a magnitude (M) with the corresponding unit (u) to determine how many times M contains u.
1- Weight is measured by balancing two forces of opposite senses.
2- Length is measured by sliding a graduated tape over the object.
3- Temperature is measured by the expansion or contraction of a liquid (mercury or alcohol) enclosed in a graduated glass tube.
4- Time is measured by counting equal intervals of an uniform periodic movement and therefore predictable. In a clock of hands the minute hand executes, in an hour, a complete return. One hour, for example, is not a measure of movement, but of its duration. The measures of movement are distance and speed. Clocks count time intervals.
To measure is comparing a magnitude (M) with the corresponding unit (u) to determine how many times M contains u.
1- Weight is measured by balancing two forces of opposite senses.
2- Length is measured by sliding a graduated tape over the object.
3- Temperature is measured by the expansion or contraction of a liquid (mercury or alcohol) enclosed in a graduated glass tube.
4- Time is measured by counting equal intervals of an uniform periodic movement and therefore predictable. In a clock of hands the minute hand executes, in an hour, a complete return. One hour, for example, is not a measure of movement, but of its duration. The measures of movement are distance and speed. Clocks count time intervals.
I agree, but my construction links to physical time.
I look forward to reading your thinking towards physical time .
Where time forms the physical .
river
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Asexperia
Registered Senior Member
My construction links to physical time too.
When we think about time, we should think about an interval between a beginning and an end of a physical event.
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I can construct time from four axioms. Here goes:
A1: Complex numbers exists. Call this C.
A2: x = x
A3: x + y = y + x
A4: A is a subset of B if B contains A and B - A not = the empty set.
Index.....Statement...…………………………………………………………………………………….. Reason
1...…...….Construct S = C x C.......................................................................................A1, A2
1.1...…….S is 4 dimensional....................................................................................…...1
1.2.........Set the components of S = S_1,2,3,4 in the following order: Re, Im, Re, Im.....1, A2
2......…...S can transform into two Riemann Spheres......................................……...A1, 1
3............Construct two Riemann Spheres in S, call it RS x RS = Pp......................…..A1, 1
4............Isolate the Riemann Circle of S_4 and call it P_T.................................…A1, 3
4.1......…I'm going to use physical terminology below........................................…..Declaration
4.2...…..Construct "physical space" = S_P = CxC/S_4.......................................…...…A1, A2
5......…..Let P_T advance by one (rotate relative to S1,2,3) when encountering a space node and let the rotation be a quantum rotation. Call this "freq" = T_S......................
….............A1, 4, 4.2, A2
7......…..Define "Change in freq" by T_Sf - T_Si…………………………………....5
8...........Let S_1,2 be perpendicular to S_3,4.................................................................1
11..........Construct {for all n = 1 to N: n(T_Sf - T_Si)} . Call this "Changes in freqs.".........5,7
12.........Define "basic time interval" = Delta t_B = 1/[(1/N) \sum \limits_{n=1}^N n(T_Sf -
T_Si)]...........................................................................................................................1-11, A3, A2
13.......Construct MxT_S, M element of Natural Numbers subset of C..................................5, A4
14.......Define " Basic time" = t_B = {1/[(1/M) (\sum \limits_{n=1}^M n#T_S)]}*Delta t_B.......................12, 5,
A3
15........Couple t_B to every node of S_P and call the result "basic spacetime"= B_ST...........4.2, A2, A2
15.1......Construct S_i = CxC........................................................................................A1
16........Construct RSxRS in S_i, call it Pp..................................................................15.1, 2
17.........Isolate the Riemann Circle in Pp and call it P_BT....................................................A1, 16
18.........Let P_BT advance by one (rotate relative to S_i1,2,3) when encountering A B_ST node and let the rotation be a quantum rotation. Call this "freq2"= T_BST.................................17, A2
19........Construct KxT_BST, K element of Natural Numbers, subspace of C........................18, A4
20........Define "Tim1" = t_1 = 1/[(1/K)(\sum \limits_{n=1}^K n#T_BST)]..............................A3, A2, 18
21........Pp is in every particle of the clock..........................................................................Requirement
22........"Tim1" advances like a clock, it depends on the Pp in the clock and on the route in B_ST.................................................................................................................................18, 21
23........"Tim1" = Time....................................................................................................A2, 22
A1: Complex numbers exists. Call this C.
A2: x = x
A3: x + y = y + x
A4: A is a subset of B if B contains A and B - A not = the empty set.
Index.....Statement...…………………………………………………………………………………….. Reason
1...…...….Construct S = C x C.......................................................................................A1, A2
1.1...…….S is 4 dimensional....................................................................................…...1
1.2.........Set the components of S = S_1,2,3,4 in the following order: Re, Im, Re, Im.....1, A2
2......…...S can transform into two Riemann Spheres......................................……...A1, 1
3............Construct two Riemann Spheres in S, call it RS x RS = Pp......................…..A1, 1
4............Isolate the Riemann Circle of S_4 and call it P_T.................................…A1, 3
4.1......…I'm going to use physical terminology below........................................…..Declaration
4.2...…..Construct "physical space" = S_P = CxC/S_4.......................................…...…A1, A2
5......…..Let P_T advance by one (rotate relative to S1,2,3) when encountering a space node and let the rotation be a quantum rotation. Call this "freq" = T_S......................
….............A1, 4, 4.2, A2
7......…..Define "Change in freq" by T_Sf - T_Si…………………………………....5
8...........Let S_1,2 be perpendicular to S_3,4.................................................................1
11..........Construct {for all n = 1 to N: n(T_Sf - T_Si)} . Call this "Changes in freqs.".........5,7
12.........Define "basic time interval" = Delta t_B = 1/[(1/N) \sum \limits_{n=1}^N n(T_Sf -
T_Si)]...........................................................................................................................1-11, A3, A2
13.......Construct MxT_S, M element of Natural Numbers subset of C..................................5, A4
14.......Define " Basic time" = t_B = {1/[(1/M) (\sum \limits_{n=1}^M n#T_S)]}*Delta t_B.......................12, 5,
A3
15........Couple t_B to every node of S_P and call the result "basic spacetime"= B_ST...........4.2, A2, A2
15.1......Construct S_i = CxC........................................................................................A1
16........Construct RSxRS in S_i, call it Pp..................................................................15.1, 2
17.........Isolate the Riemann Circle in Pp and call it P_BT....................................................A1, 16
18.........Let P_BT advance by one (rotate relative to S_i1,2,3) when encountering A B_ST node and let the rotation be a quantum rotation. Call this "freq2"= T_BST.................................17, A2
19........Construct KxT_BST, K element of Natural Numbers, subspace of C........................18, A4
20........Define "Tim1" = t_1 = 1/[(1/K)(\sum \limits_{n=1}^K n#T_BST)]..............................A3, A2, 18
21........Pp is in every particle of the clock..........................................................................Requirement
22........"Tim1" advances like a clock, it depends on the Pp in the clock and on the route in B_ST.................................................................................................................................18, 21
23........"Tim1" = Time....................................................................................................A2, 22
Here is the revised edition:
Axioms:
A1: Complex numbers exists. Call this C.
A2: x = x
A3: x + y = y + x
A4: A is a subset of B if B contains A and B - A not = the empty set.
Definitions: "C x C" means "Comlex plane Cartesian product Complex plane".
……………….."RS <-> RS" means "Riemann sphere superimpose on Riemann sphere".
……………….."quantum rotation" means "a rotation from state A to state B without visiting the states in between".
Index.....Statement...…………………………………………………………………………………….. Reason
1...…...….Construct S = C x C.......................................................................................A1, A2
1.1...…….S is 4 dimensional....................................................................................…...1
1.2.........Set the components of S = S_1,2,3,4 in the following order: Re, Im, Re, Im.....1, A2
2......…...S can transform into two Riemann Spheres......................................……...A1, 1
3............Construct two Riemann Spheres from S, call it RS <-> RS = Pp...................…..A1, 1
4............Isolate the Riemann Circle of S_4 and call it P_T.................................…A1, 3
4.1......…I'm going to use physical terminology below........................................…..Declaration
4.2...…..Construct "physical space" = S_P = CxC/S_4.......................................…...…A1, A2
5......…..Let P_T advance by one (rotate relative to S_1,2,3 by one unit as measured around the curve) when encountering a space point and let the rotation be a quantum rotation. Call this "freq" = T_S......................….............A1, 4, 4.2, A2
7......…..Define "Change in freq" by T_Sf - T_Si…………………………………....5
8...........Let S_1,2 be perpendicular to S_3,4.................................................................1
11..........Construct {for all n = 1 to N: n(T_Sf - T_Si)} . Call this "Changes in freqs.".........5,7
12.........Define "basic time interval" = Delta t_B = 1/[(1/N) \sum \limits_{n=1}^N n(T_Sf - T_Si)]...........................................................................................................................1-11, A3, A2
13.......Construct (M times T_S), M element of Natural Numbers subset of C..................5, A4
14.......Define " Basic time" = t_B = {1/[(1/M) (\sum \limits_{n=1}^M n#T_S)]}*Delta t_B.......................12, 5,
A3
15........Couple t_B to every node of S_P and call the result "basic spacetime"= B_ST...........4.2, A2, A2
15.1......Construct S_i = CxC........................................................................................A1
16........Construct RS<->RS from S_i, call it Pp..................................................................15.1, 2
17.........Isolate the Riemann Circle in Pp and call it P_BT....................................................A1, 16
18.........Let P_BT advance by one (rotate relative to S_i1,2,3) when encountering A B_ST node and let the rotation be a quantum rotation. Call this "freq2"= T_BST.................................17, A2
19........Construct (K times T_BST), K element of Natural Numbers, subset of C............18, A4
20........Define "Tim1" = t_1 = 1/[(1/K)(\sum \limits_{n=1}^K n#T_BST)]..............................A3, A2, 18
21........Pp is in every particle of the clock...........................................................Requirement
22........Tim1 advances like a clock, it depends on the Pp in the clock and on the route in B_ST..............................................................................................................................18, 21
23........Tim1 = Time....................................................................................................A2, 22
Axioms:
A1: Complex numbers exists. Call this C.
A2: x = x
A3: x + y = y + x
A4: A is a subset of B if B contains A and B - A not = the empty set.
Definitions: "C x C" means "Comlex plane Cartesian product Complex plane".
……………….."RS <-> RS" means "Riemann sphere superimpose on Riemann sphere".
……………….."quantum rotation" means "a rotation from state A to state B without visiting the states in between".
Index.....Statement...…………………………………………………………………………………….. Reason
1...…...….Construct S = C x C.......................................................................................A1, A2
1.1...…….S is 4 dimensional....................................................................................…...1
1.2.........Set the components of S = S_1,2,3,4 in the following order: Re, Im, Re, Im.....1, A2
2......…...S can transform into two Riemann Spheres......................................……...A1, 1
3............Construct two Riemann Spheres from S, call it RS <-> RS = Pp...................…..A1, 1
4............Isolate the Riemann Circle of S_4 and call it P_T.................................…A1, 3
4.1......…I'm going to use physical terminology below........................................…..Declaration
4.2...…..Construct "physical space" = S_P = CxC/S_4.......................................…...…A1, A2
5......…..Let P_T advance by one (rotate relative to S_1,2,3 by one unit as measured around the curve) when encountering a space point and let the rotation be a quantum rotation. Call this "freq" = T_S......................….............A1, 4, 4.2, A2
7......…..Define "Change in freq" by T_Sf - T_Si…………………………………....5
8...........Let S_1,2 be perpendicular to S_3,4.................................................................1
11..........Construct {for all n = 1 to N: n(T_Sf - T_Si)} . Call this "Changes in freqs.".........5,7
12.........Define "basic time interval" = Delta t_B = 1/[(1/N) \sum \limits_{n=1}^N n(T_Sf - T_Si)]...........................................................................................................................1-11, A3, A2
13.......Construct (M times T_S), M element of Natural Numbers subset of C..................5, A4
14.......Define " Basic time" = t_B = {1/[(1/M) (\sum \limits_{n=1}^M n#T_S)]}*Delta t_B.......................12, 5,
A3
15........Couple t_B to every node of S_P and call the result "basic spacetime"= B_ST...........4.2, A2, A2
15.1......Construct S_i = CxC........................................................................................A1
16........Construct RS<->RS from S_i, call it Pp..................................................................15.1, 2
17.........Isolate the Riemann Circle in Pp and call it P_BT....................................................A1, 16
18.........Let P_BT advance by one (rotate relative to S_i1,2,3) when encountering A B_ST node and let the rotation be a quantum rotation. Call this "freq2"= T_BST.................................17, A2
19........Construct (K times T_BST), K element of Natural Numbers, subset of C............18, A4
20........Define "Tim1" = t_1 = 1/[(1/K)(\sum \limits_{n=1}^K n#T_BST)]..............................A3, A2, 18
21........Pp is in every particle of the clock...........................................................Requirement
22........Tim1 advances like a clock, it depends on the Pp in the clock and on the route in B_ST..............................................................................................................................18, 21
23........Tim1 = Time....................................................................................................A2, 22
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Asexperia
Registered Senior Member
Can you make a summary with words of that point of view of time ?
Yes I can. Here goes:
Basically one takes a 4-dimensional manifold, transform them into two superimposed Riemann Spheres and isolate a circle (call this Pp) in one of the spheres. Then one specifies the circle to turn by a unit amount (the turn is an quantum rotation: turn from state A to state B without visiting the in between states) as measured along the circle, every time the Pp encounters a space point. Space fluctuates and expands so this does not give a static circle Pp. The circle's infinity point stays at the north pole of the Riemann Sphere for any finite rotation since: infinity - constant = infinity.
Using this one can define basic spacetime and from basic spacetime, Time can be defined if we require another circle (constructed the same way) to be in the particles of a clock.
Basically one takes a 4-dimensional manifold, transform them into two superimposed Riemann Spheres and isolate a circle (call this Pp) in one of the spheres. Then one specifies the circle to turn by a unit amount (the turn is an quantum rotation: turn from state A to state B without visiting the in between states) as measured along the circle, every time the Pp encounters a space point. Space fluctuates and expands so this does not give a static circle Pp. The circle's infinity point stays at the north pole of the Riemann Sphere for any finite rotation since: infinity - constant = infinity.
Using this one can define basic spacetime and from basic spacetime, Time can be defined if we require another circle (constructed the same way) to be in the particles of a clock.
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Asexperia
Registered Senior Member
--------- ccp ---------->
past ............. future
ccp = changeable continuous present (real time)
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