Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
Sarkus, I'm growing weary of your semantic nut and shell game. Observation no longer means observation. Consciousness isn't really consciousness. And well the term physical can just about refer to anything now. I know for a fact that quantum physics attributes the collapse of wavefunctions to conscious acts of observation. Experiments confirm this over and over. Measurements by devices do the same thing. But that does not mean a conscious act of observation is really just a measurement by a device. You said yourself the math supports this.
What seems strange to me is how much you are striving to defend a thesis here based on little more than some dubious experiments by Libet. Apparently based solely on these you feel justified in sweeping aside the massive amount of experiential evidence that we really do mentally cause our own actions. That when I choose to raise my hand for instance I can indeed raise my hand. Apparently you prefer to think that the real reason I moved my hand was some purposeless and sporadic discharge of interneural circuitry. That seems to me silly. Everything we know and assume about our own volition must now go out the window in favor of some purposeless neurological determinism that just so happens to SEEM to be caused mentally but really isn't. That in itself violates Occam's razor. It seems far more contrived and speculative to conclude experiences to be "perfect illusions" than just accepting them as empirically-supported facts.
At this point I wonder who is even arguing your thesis for you? You yourself with your own mind or some purposeless chains of electrochemical events occurring in your brain. I assume the former because that's what all my experience shows me. That I do indeed exist as an autonomous and free causal agent of my own behavior. It also is the sole basis for believing our thoughts, words, and actions are based on reason instead of on chance occurrence. Are you really ready to dispense with reason as the guiding influence on all your conscious actions? Are you really so resigned to ontically joining the ranks of robots, computers and photon detectors in the pursuit of your own epiphenomenal creed?
What seems strange to me is how much you are striving to defend a thesis here based on little more than some dubious experiments by Libet. Apparently based solely on these you feel justified in sweeping aside the massive amount of experiential evidence that we really do mentally cause our own actions. That when I choose to raise my hand for instance I can indeed raise my hand. Apparently you prefer to think that the real reason I moved my hand was some purposeless and sporadic discharge of interneural circuitry. That seems to me silly. Everything we know and assume about our own volition must now go out the window in favor of some purposeless neurological determinism that just so happens to SEEM to be caused mentally but really isn't. That in itself violates Occam's razor. It seems far more contrived and speculative to conclude experiences to be "perfect illusions" than just accepting them as empirically-supported facts.
At this point I wonder who is even arguing your thesis for you? You yourself with your own mind or some purposeless chains of electrochemical events occurring in your brain. I assume the former because that's what all my experience shows me. That I do indeed exist as an autonomous and free causal agent of my own behavior. It also is the sole basis for believing our thoughts, words, and actions are based on reason instead of on chance occurrence. Are you really ready to dispense with reason as the guiding influence on all your conscious actions? Are you really so resigned to ontically joining the ranks of robots, computers and photon detectors in the pursuit of your own epiphenomenal creed?
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