does it matter?

B

b0urgeoisie

I am the Bourgeois
Registered Senior Member
Recently, I noticed a verse in the KJV of the bible. (Gen. 1:20) I think that verse creates the following questions-

1. Is the question of natural selection an important one to christianity?
2. Are there contradicting translations of this verse?
3. Can this verse suggest that life started in the water?
4. If life began in the water does that have any bearing on the question of natural selection?

I am eager for different answers to these questions. Please feel free to give your (respectful) answer to any of these questions. Also, I am curious to hear the perspective of persons both inside and outside of christianity.
 
1: No, as this verse, And God said, "Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the firmament of the heavens."
has nothing to do with natural selection.
2: No
3: No, but life did start in a chemical mix. (soup) but the bible say's Gen:1/21: So God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good, if you can believe that.
4: life has changed continuous since the begining of time, so natural selection is an on going thing
 
1.I think it just might. Who wrote that passage? Moses did it. If Moses could in fact see in vision the start of life he would have seen all kinds of life in the ocean and only one major kind of life on land. Birds! He would have called them birds because some of them could fly. But, he would have been right anyway since most educated persons would not separate birds from dinosaurs. And, some wouldn't even separate birds from modern reptiles.
2.have you checked? Have you exhausted other religious writings outside of the bible?
3.You cacn't just say no. If you read the first book of Moses then you see it tells a story of creation. The story progresses in stages. The first step concerning life was Gen. 1:20. At the end of the fifth day there was nothing more than dinosaurs and fish. Here the gas stations tell us that there was a mass extinction. Then the next day God through the mechanism of speciation created Mammals.
4:when was the beginng of time? I think that is the debate.
 
b0urgeoisie said:
1.I the end of the fifth day there was nothing more than dinosaurs and fish.
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theres no dinosaurs in the bible :rolleyes:
creation as described in the bible is just a story invented by primitive people thousands of years ago who had no clue about evolution,science or how life began!

see the contradictions
www.skepticsannotatedbible.com
 
Q25 said:
theres no dinosaurs in the bible :rolleyes:
creation as described in the bible is just a story invented by primitive people thousands of years ago who had no clue about evolution,science or how life began!

see the contradictions
www.skepticsannotatedbible.com
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they are not called dinosaurs in the bible. if you had read the post it describes how moses was recounting his understanding of the creation. at one section there are only fish and birds. I am suggesting he could have lumped all the land animals together and called them birds. There is no mention of any massive extinction in the Bible either but everytime you get gas you should know that it happened.
 
I got a little confused, so perhapse you could clarify somewhat.


1. Is the question of natural selection an important one to christianity?
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In what aspect, that birds came from the water?

2. Are there contradicting translations of this verse?
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Not that I have read. Do you have two translations to suggest?

3. Can this verse suggest that life started in the water?
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Do you mean all life, or just sea creatures?

4. If life began in the water does that have any bearing on the question of natural selection?
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I don't quite think that life started in the water as you seem to suggest, so no.
 
b0urgeoisie said:
Recently, I noticed a verse in the KJV of the bible. (Gen. 1:20) I think that verse creates the following questions-

1. Is the question of natural selection an important one to christianity?
2. Are there contradicting translations of this verse?
3. Can this verse suggest that life started in the water?
4. If life began in the water does that have any bearing on the question of natural selection?

I am eager for different answers to these questions. Please feel free to give your (respectful) answer to any of these questions. Also, I am curious to hear the perspective of persons both inside and outside of christianity.
Click to expand...

Why does anybody still care about the scientific content of a twentyfive hundred year old account. Yes, the Babylonian account which the Jews stole and attribute to Moses makes a certain amount of primitive sense, but can anybody deny that modern Science can draw a much more exact picture.

Anybody who insists on the Bible is probably a farmer who is looking for an excuse to hate those City Slickers. What most people see as a Religious conflict is actually a demigraphic problem. Farmers hate city folf and city folk hate them back. Traditionally farmers use Religious Traditionalism as their favorite mode of attack. They might actually believe that they believe it, but really they only need a hammer to hit their nail, and Religion does just fine. City Folk are more versatile -- when they decide the price of wheat is too high, they just march out and kill everyone -- they don't need to make up excuses and justifications. ... Oh wait, nowadays they do... they say that "we can't wait for them to become a threat and so we have to kill all of them first" -- George W. Bush.
 
Leo Volont said:
Why does anybody still care about the scientific content of a twentyfive hundred year old account. Yes, the Babylonian account which the Jews stole and attribute to Moses makes a certain amount of primitive sense, but can anybody deny that modern Science can draw a much more exact picture.
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Leo:

If what you're saying is that Genesis is a rip off of an ancient Babylonian story, then why did Jesus refer to Noah and the Flood, and the geneology written by Luke(Gentile Gospel) must also be wrong to name just 2 examples.

How do you reconcile this with your belief?

Dave
 
b0urgeoisie said:
Recently, I noticed a verse in the KJV of the bible. (Gen. 1:20) I think that verse creates the following questions-

1. Is the question of natural selection an important one to christianity?
2. Are there contradicting translations of this verse?
3. Can this verse suggest that life started in the water?
4. If life began in the water does that have any bearing on the question of natural selection?

I am eager for different answers to these questions. Please feel free to give your (respectful) answer to any of these questions. Also, I am curious to hear the perspective of persons both inside and outside of christianity.
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1) Not for me it's not.

2) Not to my knowledge. I use both the KJV and NKJV Bible.

3) It seems to suggest that birds were made at the same time as sea creatures.

4) See 3 and also, you will find that the other land creatures were made after the sea creatures and birds. This verse you have pointed out doesn't seem to validate the theory of natural selection in my opinion.

Dave
 
I think I might have been too ambiguous. If I answer each of those questions from my perspective it should help.
1. I firmly believe there are no unimportant questions. I believe that if you chose to include the Bible in your beliefs then you must find what really happened described in the Bible.
2. There are none that I know of. But, in a study of a document that was so badly raped it is a question to consider with every verse.
3. That is exactly what it appears to suggest. There was no life. And, then from the water sprang life.
4. Absolutely! Christians who are afraid of science and scientists who are afraid of God don’t have to be. This verse allows for both to exist. This verse and those around it could be a description of natural selection given by a person who didn’t even know bacteria existed. If you believed in spontaneous generation then how would you describe natural selection?
 
b0urgeoisie said:
they are not called dinosaurs in the bible. if you had read the post it describes how moses was recounting his understanding of the creation. at one section there are only fish and birds. I am suggesting he could have lumped all the land animals together and called them birds. There is no mention of any massive extinction in the Bible either but everytime you get gas you should know that it happened.
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*************
M*W: Welcome to sciforums, b0regeoisie. It's debatable if Moses even wrote the Pentateuch. Creation stories originated from much earlier civilizations. Whoever wrote the biblical stories of creation copied from earlier civilizations such as the Sumerians. Everytime I buy gas, I know my car is empty. So what if dinosaur bones turned into fossil fuel? A million years from now, our bones will have turned into warp speed fuel.
 
Wow! It reads better now. I have a way with words that confuses even me. Thanks for the tidy up.
 
A million years from now, our bones will have turned into warp speed fuel
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Not necessarily.

1. Is the question of natural selection an important one to christianity?
1. I firmly believe there are no unimportant questions. I believe that if you chose to include the Bible in your beliefs then you must find what really happened described in the Bible.
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I believe the Bible is absolute truth. Whatever it says is right, whether I have evidence of it or not.

2. Are there contradicting translations of this verse?
2. There are none that I know of. But, in a study of a document that was so badly raped it is a question to consider with every verse.
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I don't believe so either.

3. Can this verse suggest that life started in the water?
3. That is exactly what it appears to suggest. There was no life. And, then from the water sprang life.
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The water did not give rise to life, it was just the habitat for fish.
 
b0urgeoisie said:
Recently, I noticed a verse in the KJV of the bible. (Gen. 1:20) I think that verse creates the following questions-

1. Is the question of natural selection an important one to christianity?
2. Are there contradicting translations of this verse?
3. Can this verse suggest that life started in the water?
4. If life began in the water does that have any bearing on the question of natural selection?

I am eager for different answers to these questions. Please feel free to give your (respectful) answer to any of these questions. Also, I am curious to hear the perspective of persons both inside and outside of christianity.
Click to expand...
1. That's individual, but Christianity will not "depend" on the question.

Have only one for you. But it's a important one.
 
Enigma'07 said:
Not necessarily.



I believe the Bible is absolute truth. Whatever it says is right, whether I have evidence of it or not.



I don't believe so either.



The water did not give rise to life, it was just the habitat for fish.
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I'm not sure we are talking about the same Bible. I'm using the Bible that is a collection of books arranged by men long after the death of the last contributing author.
I'm not using the Bible that was handed down by God leather bound and in its current form to Martin Luther as a tool to drive the reformation.
 
surenderer said:
Enigma,
Hi I was wondering if you agree with the sexism in the Bible also?(just wondering).....peace
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Are you saying the Bible is sexist? Are you saying the persons described in the Bible are sexist? Can you show that the Bible created the sexism? Is the sexism in the Bible origional or are the books that make up the Bible written by persons who lived in a sexist culture? Show examples of the sexism and show that the Bible and not the cultures the Bible describes are sexist.
 
Hi I was wondering if you agree with the sexism in the Bible also?(just wondering).....
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Can you give me an example? From what I have read, man and women are equal.

Is it complete?
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Yes. God has told us every thing we need to know, and that we should not add to , or take from His word.
 
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