Does Hindu Godhead have a dark side?

[duendy]

....NO, with respect, Yorda, your not diggin what i'm saying

I know that male is as important as female.
What i am pointing to is that the patriarchy do not...! which is why they split the Goddess. The whole meaning of the Goddess is not just about the female. it is about the complimentarity of opposites, or polar reality.
What patriarchs do Is split the opposites, so for example they deify the male, which they have equated with 'logic, reason, spirit, the mind...' and denigrated the body which and Nature which they equate with the female
Also they create a 'God' who is transcendennt 'ABOVE' Nature and 'all-good' hence comes the 'PROBLEM' of 'evil'...understand?

to summarize. they separate the 'light' from the 'dark'

 

[Yorda]

Ok, I get it.

What patriarchs do Is split the opposites, so for example they deify the male, which they have equated with 'logic, reason, spirit, the mind...' and denigrated the body which and Nature which they equate with the female

Patriarch... How do they denigrate the body/nature/female? There are reasons why nature is associated with the female. Is that bad? Female is the negative, soft, aspect of divinity: that which receives. The female side is within all male things, and reversed.

Also they create a 'God' who is transcendennt 'ABOVE' Nature and 'all-good' hence comes the 'PROBLEM' of 'evil'...understand?

No, I don't understand... :bugeye:
What evil?
What does it matter if God is above nature?
What does it even mean?
What is nature?

 

[duendy]

Ok, I get it.



Patriarch... How do they denigrate the body/nature/female? There are reasons why nature is associated with the female. Is that bad?

d)))It is 'bad' If in doing so they then denigrate the female and Nature which they did/do

Female is the negative, soft, aspect of divinity: that which receives. The female side is within all male things, and reversed.

d)))well, many females dont like just being identified with the 'pssive' 'negative' side. That means only 'male' is the 'positive'. that's the problem. its more multidimensional and not black and white,
Symbols that point to that are the yin/yang symbol where each 'snake' as a part of the polar opposite. An older symbol is the Caduceus with the rod and entwining sepents


No, I don't understand... :bugeye:
What evil?

d))'evil' which is polarized when complimentary oppsites are deeply realized. the cut off part--the patriarchy--dis-OWNS their other aspect, and scapegoats it via demonization

What does it matter if God is above nature?

d))that patriarchal idea separates 'God' from Nature, and places the female as 'matter'. The Goddess was/is both transcendent and immanent. meaning Nature is alive with spirit. The patriarchal idea of a wholly transcendntal god desacrilizes Nature on a deep level

What does it even mean?

d))what i am talking about

What is nature?

A Tree, the sky, animals, wind, bodies, emotions, mountaines, water, Nature spirits, Dreams, death, life, ....etc. why do you even have to ask....?(puzzled expression)

 

[everneo]

...and hallucigenic mushrooms - phallic stalk with vaginal cap.

 

[duendy]

Yes and from that image there are written in myth including biblical myth stories of twins that etymologically refer to that union, and also many sexaul connotations
.though patriarchal myth subverts the Earth religious aspect, which is the deeper meaning. which they ripped off

 

[Yorda]

well, many females dont like just being identified with the 'pssive' 'negative' side. That means only 'male' is the 'positive'.

The male and female are both illusions, in a similar way as up and down are illusions created by gravity. Remember that if your male side is visible, it means that your female side is invisible, hidden, in your consciousness. A thing can't exist without its other side. So why does it matter if male is only positive since even if your body is female, you can still express the positive side. Since humans identify themselves with their body, they tend to become female if the body is female and they take all it's aspects, they become soft, receiving, negative, and that's why they seek their completion from outside. They have no idea that the male is within them, just like the female, soft side, is within all men. Truly, all men should try and become softer, more emotional, and all females should become harder, tougher. Then there would no longer be any male or female. That we see these opposing sides means that we are separated. If we're never for or against, only then can we see the truth, because that's the way truth is.

 

[duendy]

The male and female are both illusions, in a similar way as up and down are illusions created by gravity.

d)))They are NOT illusions. if you fall out of a plane from 5,000 feet and smash into the ground, is THAt an 'illusion'?
It is more indeterminate, ambiguous than that. Same with male and femal. you can see the different bodies, and how men cannot give birth. THAT's not an illusion either. But the ambiguity is that a men might have feminine characteristics as can a woman. so it is not either/or but it is not 'just illusion' neither.

Remember that if your male side is visible, it means that your female side is invisible, hidden, in your consciousness. A thing can't exist without its other side. So why does it matter if male is only positive since even if your body is female, you can still express the positive side. Since humans identify themselves with their body, they tend to become female if the body is female and they take all it's aspects, they become soft, receiving, negative, and that's why they seek their completion from outside. They have no idea that the male is within them, just like the female, soft side, is within all men. Truly, all men should try and become softer, more emotional, and all females should become harder, tougher. Then there would no longer be any male or female. That we see these opposing sides means that we are separated. If we're never for or against, only then can we see the truth, because that's the way truth is.

All very nice, but the truth is that writ in patriarchal myth and its hierarchy of values is that Nature and the feminine are lesser than the mind. this is notable now in the scientific age where any experiences or voicings about bodily awareness, intuitions, ecstasis are dismissed as being less real than rationality, logic, reason, mind

lookin the other way, or wishful thinking, dont make this ingrained prejudice go away

 

[Yorda]

Same with male and femal. you can see the different bodies, and how men cannot give birth. THAT's not an illusion either. But the ambiguity is that a men might have feminine characteristics as can a woman. so it is not either/or but it is not 'just illusion' neither.

For me, there is no male or female, only humans who wear a man or woman suit. Women can't be hard - tough, and men can't be soft - emotional. Only a human can be both hard and soft, whichever is more appropriate. Humans can be soft and hard because they have both sides within them. A female is female, nothing more, and a male is male, nothing more, but a human is both.

What about trees and mountains, duendy? Are there any male or female mountains?

Without gravity there is no up or down. Gravity is what gives life to both of these 2 illusionary opposites. But what gives life to gravity? MIND makes distinction between heaven and earth, it sets males on the right and females on the left. If you THINK there are males and females, then they are everywhere, even in the plants and mountains. But if you do not think, if you see the whole reality of positive and negative, the opposites will vanish and you will see the balance of these two - the self.

 

[duendy]

For me, there is no male or female, only humans who wear a man or woman suit.

d)))well therer ARe men and women. it'd be foolish to deny it. but it would also be foolish to demand what SHOULD me 'male' and what should be 'female'. though we KNOW men cannot conceive and give birth to a baby, yet we KNOw men can be woman-like, as women can be man-like, and all the variations inbwteeen. so what i am trying to convey is an ambiguity without denying that there Are men and women. it's be daft to call a mad a woman cause they cant give burth, or menstruate....

Women can't be hard - tough, and men can't be soft - emotional. Only a human can be both hard and soft, whichever is more appropriate. Humans can be soft and hard because they have both sides within them. A female is female, nothing more, and a male is male, nothing more, but a human is both.

d)))so is a female, human, and so is a male. human. No need to denigrate the term, 'woman' and 'man'. do babies suckle on a man's breast?....do men nurture a baby like many women do? no. so dont be afriad to call a woman a woman then


What about trees and mountains, duendy? Are there any male or female mountains?

d)))Yorda i feel you are trying to put onto me the role of a dualist, even though i keep explainign to you i am not.
Actually you can have male and female plants, for example, marijuana, etc.
but listen. think of it like this. positive negative and earth.

this is a CIRCUIT. and within this circuit therer is relationship. you cant wish away polar opposites to resolve the 'problem'...you cant wish away light and dark. they really do exist. and their play and intermingling is the wonder OF the mountain, tree, all reality. imagine seeing a mountain with just light. if it was just dsark you wouldn'y even see it. it is the PLAY of the polar relationship between light and dark herer on Earth that is the awesome wonder of it all

Without gravity there is no up or down. Gravity is what gives life to both of these 2 illusionary opposites. But what gives life to gravity?

d))Yes, gives life. gives meaning. what use is there in a state of no up nor down? HERE is what we know. Start here. we run and fall over. isn't it great?

MIND makes distinction between heaven and earth, it sets males on the right and females on the left. If you THINK there are males and females, then they are everywhere, even in the plants and mountains. But if you do not think, if you see the whole reality of positive and negative, the opposites will vanish and you will see the balance of these two - the self.

Is this so for you? are you suggesting therer is A state that is constant and beyond the opposites? that would mean stasis. that would mean a state without a complimenary state. reality doesn't work like that
yes i agree with you that thought has split heaven from earth--we can detect this philosophical distinction in history coing from Orphism, in the West. but understanding that heaven isn't split from Earth doesn't mean that all blends into some all-pervasivie mist. there is STILL distinction. you seem to want to do away with that.
Like for example. we are talking about this shit, but there really IS poverty.
and therer realy is life and death

 

[Yorda]

d)))Yorda i feel you are trying to put onto me the role of a dualist, even though i keep explainign to you i am not.

I don't know what a dualist is but it sounds like a beautiful thing to be.

Is this so for you? are you suggesting therer is A state that is constant and beyond the opposites? that would mean stasis. that would mean a state without a complimenary state.

There is nothing male or female in me. I am the self, the reststate. I'm moving, yet not moving. Seeing, yet not seeing. Sleeping, yet not sleeping. Being, yet not being. Because humans identify themselves with their body, which by natural laws only shows one side of the self, they can't imagine two things to be in the same place at the same time, because they are material, and material laws don't allow two things to be on the same space at the same time.

The truth about everything, God, is not a being fallen from oneness, seeking its complementary half, but God is the oneness itself. He is above all that is created, and he rests not his life in some complementary half, but he rests in himself, in the Life that He IS, in absolute oneness. He is nothing, where everything arises and expresses itself. But in Him, 'nothing' and 'everything' is an inseparable and divine oneness.

When we have found our true complementary half, we no longer have a complementary half, we never had, we were always one. This is why people who fall in love sometimes feel that they have met the person before and have always been together and always will. But two bodies can't merge together because matter offers resistance, only opposites can melt into a single coin. Body and mind forms to one self.

but understanding that heaven isn't split from Earth doesn't mean that all blends into some all-pervasivie mist. there is STILL distinction.

Your consciousness separates earth from heaven because you defend the personality of duendy, a part of the omnipresent self in nothingness. True understanding means to be something. If we understand the heaven and the earth, we are the heaven and earth, and there is nothing we can think about the heaven and earth, because we are IT.

Like for example. we are talking about this shit, but there really IS poverty.
and therer realy is life and death

Life, death and poverty is created in the human mind. I met a bird outside, it knew nothing about poverty or death, and I couldn't distinguish whether it was a male or female. Your consciousness has separated nothing from everything. Creation is only possible by separation. The good and evil, and the male and female, were born from this separation, and they are not really good or bad, or male or female, but divine.

 

[duendy]

Yorda, you are an Idealist. And your type of Idealsm seems, to me, commensurae with the Upanishadian idea of 'Oneness', which of couse creates its shadow, 'the Many' which it denies, creating a subtle duality.
This is reflected in your New Agist belief 'there is no poverty', 'all is one-ism'--New Agism being very much influenced by a mish mash of the coming of 'christ consciousness' and Eastern beliefs, all wrapped up in theospohical wrappin paper.

You need to take your hover shoes off girl, or dude, and feel that earth between yer toes

 

[Lord_Phoenix]

To each his own.

 

[Yorda]

Yorda, you are an Idealist. And your type of Idealsm seems, to me, commensurae with the Upanishadian idea of 'Oneness', which of couse creates its shadow, 'the Many' which it denies, creating a subtle duality.
This is reflected in your New Agist belief 'there is no poverty', 'all is one-ism'--New Agism being very much influenced by a mish mash of the coming of 'christ consciousness' and Eastern beliefs, all wrapped up in theospohical wrappin paper.

I don't know what Idealism, or Upanishadian or New age or christ consciousness or theosophical is, but they sound interresting. Infact, I believe that all religions will merge into one religion. There will come someone and he will show with his own person that the heart of all religions is the same God.

My point is that I don't believe there is any absolute male or female, in the same way as there is no absolute good/bad or right/wrong. The good and bad exist only because we ate the fruit of knowledge... because we are conscious...

You need to take your hover shoes off girl, or dude, and feel that earth between yer toes

But I... am not girl or dude. I know that I should be more down to earth but because I don't feel good I have nothing else to do than to think... even though I don't really think, but I get all these insane ideas anyways... because there's nothing in my mind...

 

[duendy]

Dear Yorda, I truly am sorry you dont feel good,
i understand where you are coming from, but my way is to challenge if i feel i need to. Much New Age thinking to me seems to wish away real life, like poverty etc, and becomes apolitical or right wing

i am more wanting us to really not be ashamed of our animality. which means facing the darker aspects of our being. this not being done in a ritualistic sense cqauses real violence in communities

it's like we are being denied through various means. a most insidious one is the
current paradigm about 'mental illness'

 

[Yorda]

I don't think humans can do anything to solve problems like poverty. All problems go away by themselves, with time and human experience. It's destiny, it has already happened. What is our animality? Why would we be ashamed of it? Yes we should if you mean people who behave like animals... killing and stuff... but sometimes it's good to be animal.

Sorrow is an illusion. If something happens which we consider sad, we set our mind to the state of sorrow. I am not sad in reality. In realtiy, outer things don't have to affect the ourself, the sorrow is created in the mind. When we see that something is happening inside ourselves, step by step we learn to produce a counter attack, a medicine to the spiritual disease.

 

[duendy]

I don't think humans can do anything to solve problems like poverty.


d))ohhh Yorda....it is human who CREATe poverty for other people. that is going on now. It is an outrage to pretend for the comfort of -whereever you are--that poverty will go away by itself. that is total apathy, and self-satisfaction, and is a view very much central to New Age beliefs, which include Eastern beliefs in 'karma;. as though people's poverty is all due to their past sins, of them having to learn lessons. all VERy convenient bliefs for the ones who FLEECe all the wealth, land etc from the people!



All problems go away by themselves, with time and human experience. It's destiny, it has already happened.

d))exactly. your attitude reflects what i say

What is our animality?

d))bodily awareness not separated from spiritual awareness. ritualsitic expression of group emotion and eroticism

Why would we be ashamed of it?

d)))aHHHH, HONEY, WHERE HAVE YER BEEN. ..? haha...it has been writ down in stone by tha patriarchs we must be ashamed of our bodies, the 'flesh', our wildness. it's all there if you care to look

Yes we should if you mean people who behave like animals... killing and stuff... but sometimes it's good to be animal.

Sorrow is an illusion. If something happens which we consider sad, we set our mind to the state of sorrow. I am not sad in reality. In realtiy, outer things don't have to affect the ourself, the sorrow is created in the mind. When we see that something is happening inside ourselves, step by step we learn to produce a counter attack, a medicine to the spiritual disease.

sorry. nice try. actually sorrow IS real when it's real

 

[Yorda]

Well... I dunno what to say... I have infinite opinions.