Does God repent?(Christians)

[Jenyar]

God can certainly "feel" love, so even if we anthropomorphize as we do, his grief is also genuine. But we should expect to see a difference between our "emotional" reactions and God's.

That is something new to me. So that means God feels sorry for his decisions. And anyway why would he be sorry, if he did something right?

Because our sins sadden Him, persistence in sin angers Him and the results of sin requires judgment - and justice means destruction to us. There was nothing wrong with what God did, but there was with what his creation did. He did not intend a life of suffering for us, but life - of course He is sorry that there are people who will miss that life because they persist in sin!

This is just apologetics. It states quite explicitly, "God shall send them strong delusion"(KJV). It doesn't say that God shall send them the truth and they shall be deceived.

It says they already believe the lie. God will send them what they will believe, just like it is explained in 1 Kings 22. It's a way of saying God won't force them to believe what they're not prepared to. It's a process of polarization that ends with the "hardening of the heart" - like clay in an oven: its inherent strength or weakness comes out. By doing this, God makes the person become who he is. Read your examples again thoroughly, you'll see what I mean.

What about when he doesn't do what he promised?

Show one instance where God will not do as He promised.

Okay, that makes no sense at all. If God says he'll do something then changes his mind he's not going back on his word and if God does something and then regrets doing it he's not repentant but if I do it, I am? I guess there is a different standard for God's behavior, huh?

You are conveniently condensing the meaning of Nacham to mean only what you want it to. I deliberately left our "repent" out of the definition so that you would realize that; "to be sorry, rue, suffer grief, repent" - why do you suppose the one word, 'repent', contradicts the rest of the instance? Do you have a reason for thinking that?

For instance, God says He will totally destroy every living thing, but spares Noah because of his faith. Did He go back on his word? He regrets making mankind, but not Noah - Noah doesn't grieve Him. Later, God says He will destroy Sodom and Gemorrah, but is willing to spare them if there are even a few believers. Once again, those who are faithful to Him are spared from His anger. Does He go back on His word?

If we do something that turns out wrong, regret is all we have. That's it. Our only way "back" is through repentance and forgiveness. Repentance would have been an empty word if it had no meaning. When we feel sorry about something, it can be an empty passing feeling, or it can lead to us changing our behaviour so as not to do it again - repentance. But God can feel sorry for something He did right, in the sense we are sorry for a bird that still dies in summer after we have taken care of it all winter. Or a judge that has to pronounce a just sentence over his own son. When God "changes his mind", it is counter-intuitive: He stops correcting us, and continues with his plan for our life. He actually suspends his promise - so that we can have one more chance, so that justice can still be seen on earth, and more people can base their decisions on his mercy, rather than his justice. But He will not postpone his promises forever.

 

[786]

Numbers 23:19
"God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

@Anyone who believes that God repents. The above verse should explain everything. So God doesn't repent. That is also the belief of Muslims. So Jenyar don't try to make nonsense out of the verse I provided in the previous post. Above verse claims that GOD DOES NOT REPENT. This takes your hypothesis of God being sorry for what he did "right", out of the ball park.

But in the verse I provided before it claims that it grieved at his heart and that it repenth him. Contradiction unless you look it the SoutStar explained it to me. Jenyar you are just making up nonsense to prove 1 verse right. How do you then explain the verse above.

@SouthStar
The verse above uses the word repent, and claims that God does not repent. In this verse we understand the meaning of repent. But when we go to the verse provided in the previous post, then you can't figure to use the same meaning, even though it had the same way of saying the word. Your answer is more like an excuse than an actual answer. But it is better than Jenyar making up nonsense.

I believe that God does not repent. I was just trying to show the two verses differ in opinions. One claims he doesn't repent, another that he did repent.

 

[Jenyar]

But in the verse I provided before it claims that it grieved at his heart and that it repenth him. Contradiction unless you look it the SoutStar explained it to me. Jenyar you are just making up nonsense to prove 1 verse right. How do you then explain the verse above.

Numbers 23:19
a)God is not a man,
b)that He should lie,
a)Nor a son of man,
b)that He should repent.
Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?​

This is a classic Hebrew zeugma (parallelism): lie and repent are almost synonymous in that context. The final sentence is the key to understanding the verse.

 

[§outh§tar]

I guess Jenyar's beautifully eloquent answer is ok, but will you like me to answer?

 

[Adstar]

There is being sorrowful because of ones own actions and there is being sorrowful because of other peoples actions. Where did Gods sorrow come from? He was sorrowful because all the men on earth though and did evil continually. Only Noah found grace in his eyes and therefore Humanity continued to exist after the flood.

As i said before it is very hard to explain these things scripture must be read in context and even then we can all come to the wrong conclusions. It is my belief that God reveals the correct meaning of scripture to those He wills to know it. The only way to know anything is to ask God to open ones eyes.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[786]

There is being sorrowful because of ones own actions and there is being sorrowful because of other peoples actions. Where did Gods sorrow come from? He was sorrowful because all the men on earth though and did evil continually. Only Noah found grace in his eyes and therefore Humanity continued to exist after the flood.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I see your point. But in the verse he is repenting because he made man on earth. I think it is Genesis 6:6, maybe Geneses 7:7. I have to go so, sorry for not providing the verses. I think they are somewhere in this thread.

 

[786]

I guess Jenyar's beautifully eloquent answer is ok, but will you like me to answer?

Yeah, sure. I want as much information as possible.

 

[§outh§tar]

Well you'll have to ask the question again because I'm not sure what it is now. Sorry

 

[786]

Does God Repent?(Regret his decision, regrets his work, makes a mistake which he regrets)

 

[Jenyar]

It must seem so from our perspective. After all, isn't any act of mercy really "repentance" in a certain sense?

 

[Adstar]

Does God Repent?(Regret his decision, regrets his work, makes a mistake which he regrets)

I believe:

God is saddened by those who reject Him.

Matthew 23:37
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

God does not regret His work

God never makes mistakes, everything that has happened fits into His ultimate objective.

Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.


All praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[786]

I believe:

God is saddened by those who reject Him.

Matthew 23:37
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

God does not regret His work

God never makes mistakes, everything that has happened fits into His ultimate objective.

Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.


All praise The Ancient Of Days

It shouldn't sadden God if he can see the future. Why create something, which saddens you?

 

[Adstar]

Does a mother suffer through the process of child birth?

If knowledge of suffering stops one from creating, then woman after their first child would never get pregnant again. But i see a lot of woman walking around with more than one child.

Likewise God knowing that someone is going to reject Him does not stop Him from feeling the pain for the one that rejects Him when the actual time of that rejection is reached.

Jeremiah 1
1 The words of Jeremiah the son of Hilkiah, of the priests who were in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin, 2to whom the word of the LORD came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reign. 3It came also in the days of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, king of Judah, until the end of the eleventh year of Zedekiah the son of Josiah, king of Judah, until the carrying away of Jerusalem captive in the fifth month.
4 Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying: 5"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations."

Romans 8
28And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. 31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36As it is written: "For Your sake we are killed all day long; We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter." 37Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.

All Praise The Ancient of Days

 

[Raithere]

It says they already believe the lie. God will send them what they will believe, just like it is explained in 1 Kings 22. It's a way of saying God won't force them to believe what they're not prepared to. It's a process of polarization that ends with the "hardening of the heart" - like clay in an oven: its inherent strength or weakness comes out. By doing this, God makes the person become who he is. Read your examples again thoroughly, you'll see what I mean.

I’ve read them multiple times from different translations and I still find it rather clear. Regardless, I find your explanation lacking. If God was interesting in saving people wouldn’t send them the truth instead of further delusions? If a child is about to drink antifreeze because he thinks it’s fruit juice do you confirm his false belief that it’s fruit juice or do you tell him the truth?

Show one instance where God will not do as He promised.

Let’s start at the beginning. “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Adam did not die “in the day” that he ate from the tree; he lived to the ripe old age of 930.

You are conveniently condensing the meaning of Nacham to mean only what you want it to.

Actually, I looked at several translations and many experts concur since they chose to translate it as “repent”. I didn’t look up the word Nacham and try to find an alternative meaning on my own. In fact that’s what you did. I just took the time to examine your source.

I deliberately left our "repent" out of the definition so that you would realize that; "to be sorry, rue, suffer grief, repent" - why do you suppose the one word, 'repent', contradicts the rest of the instance? Do you have a reason for thinking that?

Yes, the Bible. Throughout the OT, God is constantly changing his mind. God says Cain will be “a vagrant and a wanderer” but immediately thereafter Cain “settled in the land of Nod” and “built a city”. There are many such examples.

Once again, those who are faithful to Him are spared from His anger. Does He go back on His word?

Technically, yes. And fairly often. The OT is filled with examples of God saying he will do one thing and then doing something completely different (often after a bit of convincing).

When God "changes his mind", it is counter-intuitive: He stops correcting us, and continues with his plan for our life. He actually suspends his promise - so that we can have one more chance, so that justice can still be seen on earth, and more people can base their decisions on his mercy, rather than his justice. But He will not postpone his promises forever.

Just more apologetics and not very convincing ones. It’s like that book about Nostradamus’s predictions that has to be rewritten every few years when the predictions don’t come true. All you’re saying is that God will fulfill his promises, he just hasn’t gotten around to it yet (for whatever reason). But that doesn’t really hold up under serious scrutiny.

Samuel 7:12
"When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom.

For instance:

2 Samuel 7:13 –
"He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be a father to him and he will be a son to Me; when he commits iniquity, I will correct him with the rod of men and the strokes of the sons of men, but My lovingkindness shall not depart from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you. Your house and your kingdom shall endure before Me forever; your throne shall be established forever."

Yet where is Solomon’s kingdom today?

~Raithere

 

[§outh§tar]

Let’s start at the beginning. “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

~Raithere

Not to butt in, but "die" refers to spiritual separation since if your explanation were at all valid, then what would be the point of creating Adam in the first place?

A similar thing is observed in the NT, where Jesus refers to the dead as being "asleep", instead of "dead".

 

[Raithere]

SouthStar:

In both instances the word used is muwth. Here’s the definition:

“Muwth
1) to die, kill, have one executed
a) (Qal)
1) to die
2) to die (as penalty), be put to death
3) to die, perish (of a nation)
4) to die prematurely (by neglect of wise moral conduct)
b) (Polel) to kill, put to death, dispatch
c) (Hiphil) to kill, put to death
d) (Hophal)
1) to be killed, be put to death
a) to die prematurely”

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/4/1091978917-9625.html

Here’s the issue, IMO:

I have no problem with man’s spiritual quest, I fully approve of it. Indeed, I think it is necessary or at least intrinsic to the human experience. What confounds me is the claim that a singular expression can or must be the only true expression.

What I see happening in interpretations such as you and Jenyar are providing is the attempt to reconcile the literal with the subjective. Again, I fully approve of this except for the point that you then attempt to assert that this subjective interpretation must be universally true. It seems obvious to me that it’s not.

~Raithere

 

[Jenyar]

I’ve read them multiple times from different translations and I still find it rather clear. Regardless, I find your explanation lacking. If God was interesting in saving people wouldn’t send them the truth instead of further delusions? If a child is about to drink antifreeze because he thinks it’s fruit juice do you confirm his false belief that it’s fruit juice or do you tell him the truth?

Can you understand that someone who believes an apple to be a orange will continue to believe apples to be oranges no matter how many "apples" God shows him? This passage and the ones below are actually good examples of this principle - I have no problem believing that they are significant and find it strange that you have such a problem seeing their truth beyond what you call the "literal". However, that's all God gave you and me. He didn't show us lies, neither did Jesus or the apostles. Yet that's all you see.

Let’s start at the beginning. “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Adam did not die “in the day” that he ate from the tree; he lived to the ripe old age of 930.

The Rabbi's saw an interesting interpretation of this: to God, they said, one day is as a thousand years (Psalm 90:4). God took away the length of a man's life (seventy years - Psalm 90:10) from Adam. If Adam wasn't under the grace of God, his death would have been conclusive, as would ours.

Actually, I looked at several translations and many experts concur since they chose to translate it as “repent”. I didn’t look up the word Nacham and try to find an alternative meaning on my own. In fact that’s what you did. I just took the time to examine your source.

I wasn't look for alternative meanings, but for the meaning of the word used. If it will make you happy, we could find a language other than English that has an even narrower definition of "repent", and translate it with that. God changed his course of action without changing his mind. He always acts according to his will, and his will is clear. Repentance looks somewhat different in humans - otherwise you would not have had this problem with using the word for an action of God.

As I see it, you have two different problems with God "repenting": 1) Numbers 23:19, which I explained; 2) The problem with God repenting as a human would, which Numbers 23:19 refutes.

Yes, the Bible. Throughout the OT, God is constantly changing his mind. God says Cain will be “a vagrant and a wanderer” but immediately thereafter Cain “settled in the land of Nod” and “built a city”. There are many such examples.

I'm sure there are. Let's stick with this one for now:

Genesis 4:16
So Cain went out from the LORD's presence and lived in the land of Nod, ["Nod" means "wandering" (see verses 12 and 14).] east of Eden.​

Take note of "went out from the Lord's presence" - i.e., forever in exile,wandering. Even the place he stayed meant "wandering". That he built a city (from (5782) a city (a place guarded by waking or a watch)), and according to the Legends of the Jews:

This building of cities was a godless deed, for he surrounded them with a wall, forcing his family to remain within. The punishment God had ordained for him did not effect any improvement. He sinned in order to secure his own pleasure, though his neighbors suffered injury thereby.​

Although, the text (verse 17) only tells us that Cain "was then building a city", not that he ever finished. It doesn't say "Cain built a city", as with Nimrod in Gen. 10:11 "he built Nineveh". But that's just "technically"...

Technically, yes. And fairly often. The OT is filled with examples of God saying he will do one thing and then doing something completely different (often after a bit of convincing).

God takes our actions, prayers and repentances into account. Does that make Him into a liar? Even "technically"? His words remain valid, but God can apply or lessen their force as He wills. In the end, Adam (man) will die, physically and spiritually, for his sins. But the new man (Christ, and those who live in Him) will live. Abel will be vindicated and Cain forever wandering.

Just more apologetics and not very convincing ones. It’s like that book about Nostradamus’s predictions that has to be rewritten every few years when the predictions don’t come true. All you’re saying is that God will fulfill his promises, he just hasn’t gotten around to it yet (for whatever reason). But that doesn’t really hold up under serious scrutiny.

God's promises remain valid even after they have been fulfilled, because what God does is not for the sake of one man, or one time, but for all humanity and all eternity. Otherwise none of the prophets would have been any use to us - they were speaking to the Hebrews of their time.

Samuel 7:12
"When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom.

For instance:

2 Samuel 7:13 –
"He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be a father to him and he will be a son to Me; when he commits iniquity, I will correct him with the rod of men and the strokes of the sons of men, but My lovingkindness shall not depart from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you. Your house and your kingdom shall endure before Me forever; your throne shall be established forever."

Yet where is Solomon’s kingdom today?

Ever heard of the throne of David?

1 Kings 2:12
So Solomon sat on the throne of his father David, and his rule was firmly established.

1 Kings 2:45
But King Solomon will be blessed, and David's throne will remain secure before the LORD forever."​

See also Psalm 132. You're aware that this wasn't all God was promising David. God said your house and your throne shall be established forever. I'm sure David didn't expect to live forever on earth, and neither did Solomon. What was his throne worth if their wasn't someone on it?

Luke 1:30
But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end."​

Not to mention the prophecy of Isaiah 9:6
"For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given...
He will reign on David's throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever."

 

[water]

Can you understand that someone who believes an apple to be a orange will continue to believe apples to be oranges no matter how many "apples" God shows him?

And what does it take to break such a hellish spell?

 

[Jenyar]

And what does it take to break such a hellish spell?

I think it's merciful to both.

 

[water]

I think it's merciful to both.

I don't understand -- merciful to both -- whom?