Does God Love Us?

C

Closet Philosopher

Off to Laurentian University
Registered Senior Member
In realtion to a thread I posted in earlier, I was thinking... Does God really love us? Me, being raisedin a christian family, we were taught that he loves us no matter what we do, more than anything in the world. Since God supposedly created everything, including evil and hate and hurt, why would he place people that he loves SO much into this situation, to be hurt, to sin, to feel the power of evilness wherever we go...

I know that some people think that the reason why there is evil is bacause God gave us free choice to do what we wish and that includes doing evil. It doesn't make sense because God controls what we know as a race, in the Bible, he says he made our minds only understand certain concepts and not others on purpose because there are some things we aren't supposed to know. then why did he make us knowa ll the bad things is he truly loves us?
 
He loves to see us prosper, he loves to see us suffer, he loves every damn thing that happens, he's quite perverse.
 
Originally posted by ILikeSalt
In realtion to a thread I posted in earlier, I was thinking... Does God really love us? Me, being raisedin a christian family, we were taught that he loves us no matter what we do, more than anything in the world.
Click to expand...

He loves us unconditionally, but doesn't love some of the stuff we do.

Since God supposedly created everything, including evil and hate and hurt,
Click to expand...

No. Everything God created was good(Gen.1:29, 31). What we(mankind and Satan) have done is perverted(literally twisted) some of his creation for evil purposes(things like sex, marijuana, etc. have been twisted by man kind)

why would he place people that he loves SO much into this situation, to be hurt, to sin, to feel the power of evilness wherever we go...
Click to expand...

Here's the deal: we, being sinful, set ourselves up for this. The wages of sin is death. Because of our sin we are punished, for lack of a better term.
But There is a way out. Jesus Christ conquered death, Hell, and the grave that we might spend eternity with him.

I know that some people think that the reason why there is evil is bacause God gave us free choice to do what we wish and that includes doing evil.
Click to expand...

To love is to have options. He had to give us a choice to either obey or disobey. Otherwise it'd be forced love, which isn't love at all.

It doesn't make sense because God controls what we know as a race, in the Bible, he says he made our minds only understand certain concepts and not others on purpose because there are some things we aren't supposed to know. then why did he make us knowa ll the bad things is he truly loves us?
Click to expand...

Our mind is finite. God and certain aspects of him are infinite. Thus parts of God are beyond our comprehension.

You're only looking on the bad side. He makes it known to us that there is a way above the bad stuff of this world, Jesus Christ.

(originally posted by Spidergoat)
He loves to see us prosper, he loves to see us suffer, he loves every damn thing that happens, he's quite perverse.
Click to expand...

Where do you get this idea, that he loves to see us suffer?
 
ILikeSalt,

Imagine a universe where there is no God. Now examine everything that happens and you'll see it is all consistent and makes perfect sense.
 
Cris

ILikeSalt,

Imagine a universe where there is no God. Now examine everything that happens and you'll see it is all consistent and makes perfect sense.
Click to expand...

Very nice.
 
Originally posted by Cris
ILikeSalt,

Imagine a universe where there is no God. Now examine everything that happens and you'll see it is all consistent and makes perfect sense.
Click to expand...
Now imagine God having created everything as "good", i.e. to be a consistent and fully functional autonomous system. That is the trademark He leaves on everything; an image of who He is.

To something less, something more will always seem superfluous.
 
Jenyar,

Now imagine God having created everything as "good", i.e. to be a consistent and fully functional autonomous system. That is the trademark He leaves on everything; an image of who He is.
Click to expand...
The image has no cohesion since badness, and suffering exist, i.e. not everything is good.

Badness exists because some people are bad.

Goodness exists because some people are good.

Suffering exists because we have not yet learnt how to cure and avoid all suffering.

Death exists because we have not yet learnt how to avoid it.

These are the simple facts that are fully consistent with observed reality.

A God concept changes none of these and is quite superfluous.
 
Originally posted by Cris

The image has no cohesion since badness, and suffering exist, i.e. not everything is good.

Badness exists because some people are bad.

Goodness exists because some people are good.

Suffering exists because we have not yet learnt how to cure and avoid all suffering.

Death exists because we have not yet learnt how to avoid it.

These are the simple facts that are fully consistent with observed reality.

A God concept changes none of these and is quite superfluous.
Click to expand...
Most believers will beg to differ: God does alleviate suffering - he might not always take away the suffering, but He does comfort the sufferer. And make it possible to endure and learn from it.

But you answered your own objection: mostly the "bad" is only a subjective experience of what is ultimately just "life". And anything alive, or preserving life, can be called "good" in my opinion. Death exists because it is part of our nature - it is the valley that is formed when a mountain is raised. Anything that can live can also die. Likewise, anything with the ability to do good can also fail to do good, or worse.

An immortal trapped under a rock he cannot lift might not think the ability to die is such a bad idea.
 
Last edited:
Originally posted by ILikeSalt
....we were taught that he loves us no matter what we do, more than anything in the world.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, we were,nt taught much more, and as a result we lack understandiing.

Since God supposedly created everything, including evil
Click to expand...

Evil isn't a creation, it is an action undertaken. Evil can only be manifested when someone has ill-intent, otherwise it doesn't exist.

why would he place people that he loves SO much into this situation, to be hurt, to sin....
Click to expand...

Because we desire to be placed in this situation, so he affords us our fantasy, while simlutaneosly giving us the chance to come out of that situation through our desire.

Love

Jan Ardena.
 
Evil isn't a creation, it is an action undertaken. Evil can only be manifested when someone has ill-intent, otherwise it doesn't exist.
Click to expand...

Maybe God created evil... and the devil could make evil.. or maybe God doesn't exist... my own personal inner struggle.
 
posted by jcarl: No. Everything God created was good(Gen.1:29, 31). What we(mankind and Satan) have done is perverted(literally twisted) some of his creation for evil purposes(things like sex, marijuana, etc. have been twisted by man kind)

It is in our nature to "twist" things around. It is in our nature to be selfish and greedy. This is the way God made us. God weighed us down with these strong compulsions to sin, but blessed us with very little opposite compulsions to act as a counterbalance. For example, the compulsion for greed and selfishness is very strong and fundamental to human nature, but the compulsion for selflessness and giving is much more subtle and secondary, and is something that must usually be learned. Sure, we still have a choice not to sin, but can God really blame us when we do? After all, we're only human. We're not Gods, yet it seems we're expected to behave like we are. Human nature is faulty by default according to God's standards. God could not have been suprised when he saw that his creations did not live up to his standards, because God is perfect. God made us exactly the way that he wanted to make us. He could have made good compulsions primary, but instead he chose to make sinful compulsions primary.

Here's the deal: we, being sinful, set ourselves up for this. The wages of sin is death.

No. God set us up for this. Sin was created when God first decided to sit in judgment over us. We, with our perfectly crafted imperfections, are like the bowling pins; God's judgment is like the bowling ball .

To love is to have options. He had to give us a choice to either obey or disobey. Otherwise it'd be forced love, which isn't love at all.

He gave us choice. He gave us options. This results in many bad options as well as good. Thats the way it has to be though in order for us to truly know and love God. Ok fine. That's all well and good. The insanity starts when God starts judging us based on our choices. Why judge? God is the one who crafted this system of free will and choices. He knew what would come. Why would God, who is perfect, bother to judge that which was strategically made imperfect by himself?
 
Originally posted by matnay
posted by jcarl: No. Everything God created was good(Gen.1:29, 31). What we(mankind and Satan) have done is perverted(literally twisted) some of his creation for evil purposes(things like sex, marijuana, etc. have been twisted by man kind)
----------
M*W: We assume what God created was good, but God created both being and nothingness, good & bad, positive & negative.
----------
To love is to have options. He had to give us a choice to either obey or disobey. Otherwise it'd be forced love, which isn't love at all.
----------
M*W: We have options. We have a brain, a mind, an intelligence, and in using these things, we have options. Good vs. bad, positive vs. negative are our choices. Sin does not result in death, sin is the absence of God, more realistically, sin is the absence of a positive force. It could be a vacuum or it could be a negative force, depening on the continuity of the "sin."
----------
He gave us choice. He gave us options. This results in many bad options as well as good. Thats the way it has to be though in order for us to truly know and love God. Ok fine. That's all well and good. The insanity starts when God starts judging us based on our choices. Why judge? God is the one who crafted this system of free will and choices. He knew what would come. Why would God, who is perfect, bother to judge that which was strategically made imperfect by himself?
----------
M*W: Yes, this is true. To truly know God is to know what's in one's heart. The insanity as I see it starts when one believes God is judging him based on the ancient beliefs in God that have been retained by society. There's really no higher power that judges us! It's us judging ourselves by what we perceive to be God. I still have a major problem thinking of God as "Him." It just doesn't make sense to me to give it a name or a gender!
Click to expand...
 
Prince Charming

Yes, God loves us very much.
I hope we live happily ever after and have many beautiful children together.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Maybe.

A better question would be: does it matter if God loves us?
I'd say no. God shows no loving results. Our idea of love is incompatible with God's actions. As loving parents, for example, we don't sit in judgement over our children and we certainly would not we use any form of eternal punishment if we had the power. We do not let our children suffer if we can help it. Loving parents take care of their children; they do not lose their children in the park, claiming that they had free will to stay with them but chose not to. We adaptively guide our children in a straight-forward manner; we don't leave our children at birth with only an extremely questionable guidebook to teach them right from wrong. God obviously has a completely different notion of love than we do. It is not even right to use the word love to describe what we believe God feels towards us. Love is a human feeling. God is just a cold, calculating judging machine.

So what does it mean to say that God "loves" us? Does he "love" his work? Does he love everything that he creates? Does he simply love himself?
 
Jenyar,

God does alleviate suffering –
Click to expand...
This is not an observation of reality. His alleged involvement is only imagined.

he might not always take away the suffering
Click to expand...
This is consistent with observed reality and a nonexistent god.

but He does comfort the sufferer.
Click to expand...
This is only imagined as in the proven effects of a placebo.

And make it possible to endure and learn from it.
Click to expand...
Again the cause is only imagined. People are fully capable of learning from their own experiences as we observe.

Good is anything that supports and enhances life.
Bad is anything that detracts from or destroys life.

Death exists because it is part of our nature –
Click to expand...
No, death exists because we have yet to learn how to prevent it.
 
It's going to be too comical when medical science overcomes natural death.
The religions of the world are going to lose multitudes to the wiles of near immortality.
 
Originally posted by Redoubtable
It's going to be too comical when medical science overcomes natural death.
The religions of the world are going to lose multitudes to the wiles of near immortality.
Click to expand...
You have a warped idea of death. As I've said, anything that can live can die - it's part of the package. Medical science (AKA 'all the king's men') in all their glory will never be able to put Humpty Dumpty back together again after his tragic fall.
 
Jenyar,

That something can die doesn't mean that it must die.

Nature is a largely random, undirected, and indifferent process. We are introducing direction and order, and death is on our list to defeat.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top