Does God Have Free Will?

Cortex_Colossus

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If he does then He should also be as incomprehensible as He intends.

For instance, some atheists claim that some theists are much too retarded and useless to be loved by a God of any kind. But that would be assuming God makes only rational choices.

Perhaps God embraces only those who believe in Him and leaves to their own devices those who turn their backs on Him.
 
Your thread title reminds me of a story by Larry Niven in which he describes a being so intellegent that it has no free will. He claimed that to a super-intellegent being, the right course of action would always be clear. So there would be no "free choice".

I disagree. Intellegence is merely a tool. It does not set your goals, it merely helps you achieve them. So a super intellegent being would be more free. Better able to achieve his desires.

And God? Of course God would have free will. What is freedom but power. The power to do as you choose. As an omnipotent being, God would be more free than any man who ever lived.
 
if God is a creation of humans, then we can assume that the will of God is really the will of humans. Since humans have a degree of free will, we can then assume that God has free will.
 
God as a super intelligent being? he could have thought of a better population control than war, he could have left out long lingering death,
he could have left out super rich no goods, he could have left out no
+c travel, in fact he gave us a raw deal and must be a sadist, he left us with no real free will, he enclosed us in a melting pot with no escape.
If i met him i would give him a knuckle sandwich for being such an evil
god.
 
Perhaps God embraces only those who believe in Him and leaves to their own devices those who turn their backs on Him.

That's the prevailing message of the Bible, isn't it? You believe and follow, or you burn in Hell.

*Edit: I don't believe that nonsense, for the record. I was just saying that you were right in assuming that this supposed "god" only takes those who follow and believe...it's very clear that if you don't make your way to him at some point in your life, you won't go to heaven.
 
One at prime levels looks to be "prime force" than its mediator(GOD) (modified by prime force or independant?) at secondary levels, than furthur . Prime force contents in everyone can be thought as "free will" or independant whereas at mediated level controlled..controlled by mediator(GOD).
 
God has no Free Will

There are three proofs that God has no "free will" using two properties of a white light God, and the fact it is said to be an ultimate Creator:

* Omniscience (all-knowing): An omniscient being does not have free will.
* Benevolence: An all-good God has no free will.
* God exists outside of time... where there is no free will
* Conclusion: God is not moral

* An omniscient being does not have free will

If you are all-knowing, you know your future actions, what choices you will make, and you cannot change them otherwise your knowledge would be wrong, and you wouldn't be all-knowing. An omniscient being has no free will to choose actions; all it's actions are predetermined.

"There is a lightswitch on the wall; God may either turn it on, or leave it off; but, since God already knows the future, God knows that he will turn it on. That is part of his knowledge. But what if God exercises freewill, and chooses not to turn it on. Is this possible?"

You are reading this webpage, which means that at some point you made a choice to start reading it. You feel you "chose" to read it. You also know that you do not have free will to go back and change that choice. It is impossible, even if you want to: you can't. If you knew a choice you was going to make in the future... what would it mean? You would have no free will to change that choice. No option, no choices... based on the fact that you know it's going to happen, it is predestined and no amount of strong will can change it.

As soon as an omniscient being comes into existence it already knows every action it will make. In effect God is an observer. An omniscient being has no free will - it's entire future is set out and it has no choice but to follow it's predestined path. God knows your prayers before you make them, it already knows what sacrifices are going to made to him and who is devoted enough to make them. We have nothing to prove to an omniscient god, and none of our actions will "change it's mind":

It already knows what our actions will be, therefore it's mind is already set. We present no new knowledge so cannot change it's mind. Knowing it's own future, too, it can never change it's own mind so has no free will

* An all-good God has no free will

Out of the possible options in a situation God always makes the best choice because it is perfectly benevolent. It cannot do something that is less moral or "good" than something else, because that would not be perfectly good, but merely second-best good. So in every situation, God only has one choice: The most moral/good one. It is easy to see that God itself does not have free will. It can make no choices, every moment in time for an omniscient-benevolent God only allows one action. In order to give God it's free will, we would have to take away it's omniscience - it's all-knowing nature - or take away it's benevolence.

* God exists outside of time... where there is no free will

Free will is the making of choices according to our own deliberation. Deliberation requires thought, and thought requires change over time. If time was frozen and nothing changed, no-one would have free will. Free will is a concept that only exists inside the timeline. If God is, as is required, a creator of Time and Space, then God exists outside of time. It is senseless to talk of "before" the big bang, "before" the creation of time because there was no "before", no passage of time before then.

In this "void" where nothing changes, God has no free will. It's thoughts can't change and flow because time does not change for anything that extends outside of 4D. Taking the hypercube as an example, it may *appear* to us to change over time as we view it in a series of 3D slices, but in reality the hypercube is completely unchanging from it's own point of view. From God's own point of view there is no "thinking", no change in states of mind over time. All choices were instantly made according to what is most "perfect" (if God is a perfect creator), there were never any choices or willpower involved. By it's very nature, if God is perfect and created Time, God has had no free will to either engage, change or affect any free will on it's own part.

* Conclusion: God is not moral

God is triply denied free will, the following three contradict the existence of a being with Free Will:

An omniscient being cannot have free will
A perfectly benevolent God cannot have free will
The creator of time cannot have free will


V C
 
Prime Force >>: Its mediator-GOD>>Secondary prime force>>>others.

Ladies first is said.

Basis of GOD may either be prime force or independant?

As such basis of free will be prime force which is independant, supreme and prime. Free will can be said as nature/Prakuriti of anything or being which is free, independant and supreme. One can retain his nature and bhave accordingly, consiously or unconsiously.
 
If he does then He should also be as incomprehensible as He intends.

For instance, some atheists claim that some theists are much too retarded and useless to be loved by a God of any kind. But that would be assuming God makes only rational choices.

Perhaps God embraces only those who believe in Him and leaves to their own devices those who turn their backs on Him.
there is a difference between something being incomprehensible and something being known incompletely - like for instance there are many things we do not know about the sun, yet we wouldn't say that the sun is incomprehensible - similarly there may remain many mysterious things about god, but still knowledge about him can be cultivated sufficiently for one to develop attachment to him
 
God has no Free Will



* Conclusion: God is not moral

God is triply denied free will, the following three contradict the existence of a being with Free Will:

An omniscient being cannot have free will
A perfectly benevolent God cannot have free will
The creator of time cannot have free will


V C

get back to us when you work the free will of the living entity into your equations
:D
 
God has no Free Will
* An omniscient being does not have free will

If you are all-knowing, you know your future actions, what choices you will make, and you cannot change them otherwise your knowledge would be wrong, and you wouldn't be all-knowing. An omniscient being has no free will to choose actions; all it's actions are predetermined.

"There is a lightswitch on the wall; God may either turn it on, or leave it off; but, since God already knows the future, God knows that he will turn it on. That is part of his knowledge. But what if God exercises freewill, and chooses not to turn it on. Is this possible?"
One can know all this is, but not all that will be and still have freewill. So being all knowing does not necesarily mean knowing the future. Of course, a conciousness truly capable of knowing all that is, can probably make some pretty good guesses as to what will be.

Consider the character, Maub dib, in Dune. At one point, he becomes so prescient that he can use his visions of the future in place of his lost vision. Yet the future was not cast in stone. He saw only probabilities, subject to change.

Quantum mechanics teaches that unpredictability is built into the very fabric of the universe. I say this was no accident. God made it this way on purpose to avoid just the situation you describe.
 
the GOD of the Bible IS and EXACT GOD.

If he does then He should also be as incomprehensible as He intends.

For instance, some atheists claim that some theists are much too retarded and useless to be loved by a God of any kind. But that would be assuming God makes only rational choices.

Perhaps God embraces only those who believe in Him and leaves to their own devices those who turn their backs on Him.

Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

In case of the free will to lie, he can't.

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
 
Comprehend God, you can NOT. So stop trying, and focus on what really matters. To know yourself. Homo nosce te ipsum.
 
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Why? Did you not comprehend, even a little of HIM?

Comprehend God, you can NOT. So stop trying, and focus on what really matters. To know yourself. Homo nosce te ipsum.

Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.


True, His thoughts are not my thoughts...

Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables:

BUT because I belong to them...

though

Isaiah 29:24 They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.
 
similarly there may remain many mysterious things about god, but still knowledge about him can be cultivated sufficiently for one to develop attachment to him

Do you actually have any experience of god, (and thus know things about him), or are you just basing your claim on the claims of a book?
 
there is a difference between something being incomprehensible and something being known incompletely - like for instance there are many things we do not know about the sun, yet we wouldn't say that the sun is incomprehensible - similarly there may remain many mysterious things about god, but still knowledge about him can be cultivated sufficiently for one to develop attachment to him
I can see the sun. I can study and measure and interact with it.

I can then listen to “authorities” and “experts” describing” what produces it or offering theories about what I cannot perceive about it.
We will share a common experience, a sensual one, and his expertise will be restricted to explaining things about what I cannot sensually perceive or what I cannot comprehend because I lack knowledge.

You study the “correct epistemology” from the “right teachers” and the only shared reality you have is your shared emotional reactions, existential anxieties and stupidity.
 
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I can see the sun. I can study and measure and interact with it.

I can then listen to “authorities” and “experts” describing” what produces it or offering theories about what I cannot perceive about it.
We will share a common experience, a sensual one, and his expertise will be restricted to explaining things about what I cannot sensually perceive or what I cannot comprehend because I lack knowledge.

You study the “correct epistemology” from the “right teachers” and the only shared reality you have is your shared emotional reactions, existential anxieties and stupidity.
can you see electrons too?
 
can you see electrons too?
No, but I can see matter – which is nothing more than temporality manifest – an electron being but a theoretical particle of it.
I do not pray to the electron nor am I asked to sacrifice my existence to the theory of physics, nor am I promised eternal rewards by submitting to the electron, nor do I sacrifice to the electron.

If an “expert” possessing more knowledge and better equipment to study the phenomenon of matter tells me, and is supported by many others on this, that he thinks matter is made up of electrons – which are nothing more than human symbols of concepts – and he can then produce machines that work on his principles, then I’m more inclined to take his word on it – maintaining skepticism as the fundamental principle of intellectual integrity.

Matter is a common experience. There is nobody that does not believe in matter and there are no wars fought over if matter is real or not or whose perception of matter is more accurate. Matter is a common perception and all that is left is explaining what it is and how it appears and how it works in its different qualities.
Disagreements arise as to what matter’s essence is.

Your “God” is not a common experience but a desperate explanation based on common human fears and hopes and projections.

You, you pathetic moron, see nothing but matter (temporality manifest) and you are told that something exists that is other than it. The “authorities” you respect have nothing to show but promises and myths and hypotheticals with no basis on common experience or basic common sense.

You perceive no beginnings and no ends and yet you presuppose them, adding a beginning with no beginning – also contradicting your own premises.
You perceive no absolute and yet you presuppose it, before you look outwards, because your brain has been infected by a disease that plays with your existential anxieties and instinctual fears and your need for certainty and for stability and for hope.
You have, nothing to show but books written by unknown men, thousands of years ago, which offers you a release from responsibility and fear and so you feel attracted to their theories; the very theories which, ironically, are geographically/historically determined and culturally promoted and this does not cause you to explore the conflicts of interest implied.



How you decide which “authority” is more reliable and which less so and how do you choose experts, any expert or specialist…a doctor let us say?
I decide it in the same way I decide which friend is more reliable or whose advice is more reliable. I look at the source and its past performances.
Then I compare the source’s evaluations with my own perceptions and I see if they correspond or if they are diametrically opposite.

I can only imagine your glee when you stumbled upon the hypocritical strategy of using “epistemology” to make your mythologies possible.
The “correct” authorities, using the “right” teachings you proclaimed failing to define what either “correct” or “right” meant.
I can raise a child to believe in gargoyles and to depend on my authority, do gargoyles exist?
How would the child decide if I were a reliable authority or just someone trying to manipulate it and control its thoughts?

You cannot prove your positions nor offer rational arguments for them and so you attempt to insinuate their validity based on the premise that all human thoughts are hypothetical and rely on some degree of faith.
You level everything, in this way, so as to make your inanities equal in validity with any others.

Besides who told you I believe electrons are absolutely fact?
I believe they are more probable than your childish fairytales and that is it.

One more thing, the study of the “correct” teachings from the “right” authorities can be used as an argument to support any inanity, from UFO’s to Allah and from Leprechauns to the Flat Earth theory.
 
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experience of god is not such a difficult thing

You consider that an answer to my question? (Clue: it isn't).

Here we go again.. "Do you actually have any experience of god, (and thus know things about him), or are you just basing your claim on the claims of a book?"

Read it, think about it, then respond.

material experience however is full of difficulties

O...k
 
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