Does bible make more sense to those who believe?

Joeman

Eviiiiiiiil Clown
Registered Senior Member
My church pastor said so. He said those who sincerely believe in Christ and ask for his forgiveness and blah blah blah will understand the bible more because God will enlighten those who believe. It is even supported by the bible. Those who don't believe are not granted the power to understand bible by God and therefore cannot understand the bible.

Do you think it's true.

Where is the bible scripture that support it?
 
Yes, the Bible makes complete sense to those who believe it -- in much the same way everything a child does is fascinating to his parents, but the rest of us couldn't give a shit.

This is hardly exclusive to the Bible. As a rule, anything someone is ultra-interested in makes more sense to that person than someone else. Hell, I've studied obscure Radiohead lyrics so closely even they're starting to make sense to me -- and some aren't every <i>intended</i> to make sense.
 
Matthew 13

10The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?"
11He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables:
"Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand. 14In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
" 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15For this people's heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.'
[1] 16But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.



Certainly God has cursed the heathen for their great iniquity and they are surely unable to understand the things of God, for their "thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened".
 
My church pastor said so. He said those who sincerely believe in Christ and ask for his forgiveness and blah blah blah will understand the bible more because God will enlighten those who believe. It is even supported by the bible. Those who don't believe are not granted the power to understand bible by God and therefore cannot understand the bible.

Do you think it's true.

Where is the bible scripture that support it?

Yes i believe that is right. God does reveal His wisdom to those that believe and ask for it.

James 1:5
If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
§outh§tar said:
Certainly God has cursed the heathen for their great iniquity and they are surely unable to understand the things of God, for their "thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened".

So, let me get this straight. The dumbasses who will read and believe anything on first glance get blessed with the power to understand the very Word of God. Meanwhile, those of more discerning tastes will actually be "cursed" with "great iniquity"? Doesn't sound like a very good system for conversion to me.

Anything can make sense if one wants it to make sense. This is the lesson of all religion. I'm sure members of the Heaven's Gate cult had a good laugh at all those silly mortals who refused to chop their dicks off and wait for a comet. Likewise, I am certain pretentious middle school girls find a great amount of meaning and inspiration in Creed lyrics that I, being older and vagina-less, could never in a million years unearth.

Get over yourselves. You "understand" the book because you believe it.

And seriously, what kind of a God rewards gullibility and punishes healthy skepticism?

Oh yes, a God for gullible, lazy, suburban, SUV-driving, willfully ignorant prudes.
 
JustARide said:
So, let me get this straight. The dumbasses who will read and believe anything on first glance get blessed with the power to understand the very Word of God. Meanwhile, those of more discerning tastes will actually be "cursed" with "great iniquity"? Doesn't sound like a very good system for conversion to me.

Anything can make sense if one wants it to make sense. This is the lesson of all religion. I'm sure members of the Heaven's Gate cult had a good laugh at all those silly mortals who refused to chop their dicks off and wait for a comet. Likewise, I am certain pretentious middle school girls find a great amount of meaning and inspiration in Creed lyrics that I, being older and vagina-less, could never in a million years unearth.

Get over yourselves. You "understand" the book because you believe it.

And seriously, what kind of a God rewards gullibility and punishes healthy skepticism?

Oh yes, a God for gullible, lazy, suburban, SUV-driving, willfully ignorant prudes.

Did you read the verse?
 
I think we are running into a chicken and egg problem here.

You can't understand unless you have faith in God first, but why would any intelligent, independent thinker believe if they don't understand first?
 
Since theistic religion is based on faith, hope, and authority, rather than reason, argument, and understanding, we can't assume that the bible makes more sense to those who believe in it. By their own rules, they don't have to understand it at all to believe it. I'm not sure they even have to be more than vaguely familiar with any of it as a necessary condition for believing it all.

If you don't think this is true, try asking a Rastafarian to explain his religion some time!
 
Joeman said:
I think we are running into a chicken and egg problem here.

You can't understand unless you have faith in God first, but why would any intelligent, independent thinker believe if they don't understand first?

Exactly.

What God gives us a world of physical laws, a book full of unprovable miracles breaching those very laws, and then condemns us <i>a priori</i> for being skeptical and rewards those who have blind faith?
 
§outh§tar said:
Did you read the verse?

Yes, I've read the whole fucking book. And that's just the point -- the verse makes perfect sense to you, but not to me. Just because a book essentially says, "People who read this and believe it without understanding shall be eventually be blessed with understanding," doesn't mean a fricken' thing.

Lots of books congratulate their readership. The Bible is no different. It's just a bit more haughty in its praise.

In fact, this is just one in a long string of Christian base-covering methods.

Examples:

*If someone reads the Bible and doesn't understand it or rejects it, he must not have been reading close enough or with an open heart. Therefore, all problems raised by these people can be dismissed.

*If a Christian does something horrible, he must not <i>really</i> have been a Christian. Therefore, no Christian is really bad.

*If someone of another faith does something good, he was probably talking to the Christian God and merely <i>thought</i> he was talking to his God.

*If you have a doubt about one of the Bible's claims, it's probably Satan trying to lure you away from the path. Therefore, there is no need to doubt anything in the Bible.

*If God does not answer your prayer as you asked, it must not have been part of his divine plan. But if whatever you prayed for does happen, God answered your prayer. So, either way, you can rest assured God heard it and reacted accordingly.

Etc., etc., etc....​

How handy that nonbelievers can't really understand your little book -- after all, that makes it quite easy to dismiss any valid criticisms they have to offer.

So, the Bible is true because it says it is. And truth is measured by the Bible.

Ahhhh, circular logic... Christianity be thy best friend.
 
§outh§tar said:
These "laws" can be and are broken, hence the "Book".

The "Book" is a book. It hasn't broken any laws. And niether has Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, or the Wizard of Oz.
 
JustARide said:
Yes, I've read the whole fucking book. And that's just the point -- the verse makes perfect sense to you, but not to me. Just because a book essentially says, "People who read this and believe it without understanding shall be eventually be blessed with understanding," doesn't mean a fricken' thing.

Lots of books congratulate their readership. The Bible is no different. It's just a bit more haughty in its praise.

In fact, this is just one in a long string of Christian base-covering methods.

Examples:

*If someone reads the Bible and doesn't understand it or rejects it, he must not have been reading close enough or with an open heart. Therefore, all problems raised by these people can be dismissed.

That is not true at all. I do not understand things in the Bible and it does not mean I am not reading "close enough". Such difficulties encourage one to rely on God and not their own power or ability to interpret, and also to convene with other saints to discuss these things.

*If a Christian does something horrible, he must not <i>really</i> have been a Christian. Therefore, no Christian is really bad.

What would you define then as horrible as ALL Christians admit to sinning and no sin can be greater than another.

*If someone of another faith does something good, he was probably talking to the Christian God and merely <i>thought</i> he was talking to his God.

What do you mean "does something good"? If a Mormon donated to a Christian 's charity how is that talking to God? Atheists do these things and glorify themselves for being righteous, but their iniquity is self-evident for we know them by their fruit.

*If you have a doubt about one of the Bible's claims, it's probably Satan trying to lure you away from the path. Therefore, there is no need to doubt anything in the Bible.

*If God does not answer your prayer as you asked, it must not have been part of his divine plan. But if whatever you prayed for does happen, God answered your prayer. So, either way, you can rest assured God heard it and reacted accordingly.

Etc., etc., etc....​

How handy that nonbelievers can't really understand your little book -- after all, that makes it quite easy to dismiss any valid criticisms they have to offer.

Well, first off if they are nonbelievers then their criticisms can never be valid. ;)

Rom. 1
" 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless."

These people can not possibly have anything valid to say, as you can see. If this describes someone you know, then you know them by their fruit. They are wolves in sheep's clothing.

Acts 20
28Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers.[1] Be shepherds of the church of God,[2] which he bought with his own blood. 29I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.

So, the Bible is true because it says it is. And truth is measured by the Bible.

Ahhhh, circular logic... Christianity be thy best friend.

How is truth measured by the Bible? Where does the Bible say this?
 
@ JustARide

Here's also something to take a look at. I will bolden the items of interest for you:

1 Corinthians 2

1When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God.[1] 2For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. 4My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, 5so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.

Wisdom From the Spirit

6We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9However, as it is written:
"No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived
what God has prepared for those who love him"[2] -- 10but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
11The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.[3] 14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16"For who has known the mind of the Lord
that he may instruct him?"[4] But we have the mind of Christ.
 
joeman short answer to your thread, YES.

and to southstar.
a few more books(storys) with moral content, written around the same time as your bible.
so do shut up about the bible. as everyone of us has read it, and has come to the conclusion it's a book not a god's word's.

Aesop's Fables
includes a total of 655+ Fables some and there suggested morals are below
Androcles Gratitude is the sign of noble souls
The Ant and the Chrysalis Appearances are deceptive
The Ant and the Dove One good turn deserves another
The Ass and the Grasshopper Even a fool is wise-when it is too late!
The Buffoon and the Countryman Men often applaud an imitation and hiss the real thing
The Bull and the Goat It shows an evil disposition to take advantage of a friend in distress
The Bundle of Sticks Union gives strength
The Cage Bird and the Bat Precautions are useless after the crisis

Also there’s the Arabian night(1001 nights)
All with moral guidance

• THE TALE OF THE BULL AND THE ASS
• THE FISHERMAN AND THE JINNI
• THE TALE OF THE ENSORCELED PRINCE
• THE PORTER AND THE THREE LADIES OF BAGHDAD
• WHOSO SPEAKETH OF WHAT CONCERNETH HIM NOT SHALL HEAR WHAT PLEASETH HIM NOT!
• THE TALE OF THE THREE APPLES
• THE FIRST KALANDAR'S TALE
• THE SECOND KALANDAR'S TALE
• THE THIRD KALANDAR'S TALE
• THE ELDEST LADY'S TALE
• TALE OF NUR AL-DIN ALI AND HIS SON BADR AL-DIN HASAN
• THE CITY OF MANY-COLUMNED IRAM AND ABDULLAH SON OF ABI KILABAH
• THE SWEEP AND THE NOBLE LADY
• THE MAN WHO STOLE THE DISH OF GOLD WHEREIN THE DOG ATE
• THE RUINED MAN WHO BECAME RICH AGAIN THROUGH A DREAM
• THE EBONY HORSE
• THE VOYAGE’S OF SINDBAD
• ABU KIR THE DYER AND ABU SIR THE BARBER
• THE SLEEPER AND THE WAKER
• ALADDIN; OR, THE WONDERFUL LAMP
• ALI BABA AND THE FORTY THIEVES
To name but few ( fables )
there are many folk tales in all religions, that does not make them true
they have gone down the eons into history as myths legend’s saga’s epic’s etc
as a child I, wished that there was truth in these tales, but the only truth is that people wrote them.
 
The thing is that the believers are able to "not see" those verses that disagree with their inner moral systems. The nonbelievers cannot get past the hateful verses. Belief is a veil over your eyes.
 
mustafhakofi said:
joeman short answer to your thread, YES.

and to southstar.
a few more books(storys) with moral content, written around the same time as your bible.
so do shut up about the bible. as everyone of us has read it, and has come to the conclusion it's a book not a god's word's.

Does "everyone" refer to the heathen in our midst?


Since you have apparently read the Bible, but are still ignorant of whether or not it is "god's word's".

2 Tim. 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

It is obviously not. No one said it is and it is very obvious from this.
 
invert_nexus said:
The thing is that the believers are able to "not see" those verses that disagree with their inner moral systems. The nonbelievers cannot get past the hateful verses. Belief is a veil over your eyes.

Which verses disagree with conscience, if that is what you mean by "inner moral systems"? Which are the "hateful verses"?

Certainly, this is heresy of the highest order! The Spirit of Holiness illuminates one to the Scriptures.

A CHRISTIAN CAN NEVER EVER UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE BY HIMSELF!

It is absolutely impossible and will never be done. Even the Bible attests to this.
 
Oh, come on now. You're just being ridiculous. Do you retain memory of other threads while you're not inside?
 
invert_nexus said:
Oh, come on now. You're just being ridiculous. Do you retain memory of other threads while you're not inside?

Being fidei defensor is very tedious, I must admit. Your point?
 
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