Do you think that AI will ever feel emotions?

[billvon]

But are "weighted" connections themselves not differential equations?

Nope. They are weighted connections. MWR is a mathematical method for solving differential equations. That's different.

 

[Write4U]

Nope. They are weighted connections. MWR is a mathematical method for solving differential equations. That's different.

OK. That's calculating averages.

I was thinking more simply that weighted values (of any kind) inherently contain a differential equation.

See the weighted bimetallic thermometer in post #430.
or
a simple scale with unequal weights

 

[Write4U]

But are "weighted" connections themselves not differential equations?

Question based on:

Almost all of the mass (the proper word for "weight") of the atom is contained in the nucleus

https://education.jlab.org/qa/radelement_03.html#

 

[river]

Question based on: https://education.jlab.org/qa/radelement_03.html#

Go on Write4U , Look , no matter the weight , a real physical object is there .

 

[Write4U]

Go on Write4U , Look , no matter the weight , a real physical object is there .

I did not say otherwise. A differential equation exists between objects of different weights, regardless of form, i.e. in dynamical systems, like the universe .

Differential equation

In mathematics, a differential equation is an equation that relates one or more functions and their derivatives.

Schematic depiction of a function described metaphorically as a "machine" or "black box" that for each input yields a corresponding output.

In applications, the functions generally represent physical quantities, the derivatives represent their rates of change, and the differential equation defines a relationship between the two. Such relations are common; therefore, differential equations play a prominent role in many disciplines including engineering, physics, economics, and biology.

Applications

The study of differential equations is a wide field in pure and applied mathematics, physics, and engineering. All of these disciplines are concerned with the properties of differential equations of various types.

Pure mathematics focuses on the existence and uniqueness of solutions, while applied mathematics emphasizes the rigorous justification of the methods for approximating solutions. Differential equations play an important role in modeling virtually every physical, technical, or biological process, from celestial motion, to bridge design, to interactions between neurons. Differential equations such as those used to solve real-life problems may not necessarily be directly solvable, i.e. do not have closed form solutions. Instead, solutions can be approximated using numerical methods.

Many fundamental laws of physics and chemistry can be formulated as differential equations. In biology and economics, differential equations are used to model the behavior of complex systems.

The mathematical theory of differential equations first developed together with the sciences where the equations had originated and where the results found application. However, diverse problems, sometimes originating in quite distinct scientific fields, may give rise to identical differential equations. Whenever this happens, mathematical theory behind the equations can be viewed as a unifying principle behind diverse phenomena

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_equation

Dynamical systems theory

Dynamical systems theory is an area of mathematics used to describe the behavior of complex dynamical systems, usually by employing differential equations or difference equations. When differential equations are employed, the theory is called continuous dynamical systems.

From a physical point of view, continuous dynamical systems is a generalization of classical mechanics, a generalization where the equations of motion are postulated directly and are not constrained to be Euler–Lagrange equations of a least action principle.

When difference equations are employed, the theory is called discrete dynamical systems. When the time variable runs over a set that is discrete over some intervals and continuous over other intervals or is any arbitrary time-set such as a Cantor set, one gets dynamic equations on time scales. Some situations may also be modeled by mixed operators, such as differential-difference equations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamical_systems_theory

 

[river]

I did not say otherwise. A differential equation exists between objects of different weights, regardless of form, i.e. in dynamical systems, like the universe .

Differential equation

Schematic depiction of a function described metaphorically as a "machine" or "black box" that for each input yields a corresponding output.
Applications
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_equation

Dynamical systems theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamical_systems_theory

There is Always an equation . No surprise . All physical objects have mathematics because they are three dimensional physical objects . Hence have shape .

 

[Write4U]

There is Always an equation . No surprise . All physical objects have mathematics because they are three dimensional physical objects . Hence have shape .

I agree, that is my position.
But if ALL physical objects are mathematical patterns, it follows that Physical reality has an underlying (inherent) mathematical aspect. Without the mathematics there would be no physical reality of any kind. Atoms would not exist. The Table of Elements would not exist. Nothing could or would exists.

 

[river]

I agree, that is my position.
But if ALL physical objects are mathematical patterns, it follows that Physical reality has an underlying (inherent) mathematical aspect. Without the mathematics there would be no physical reality of any kind. Atoms would not exist. The Table of Elements would not exist. Nothing could or would exists.

Prove that mathematics causes the patterns , in and of its self . And that no physical objects and dynamics is not involved . Not refered to You can't .

 

[Write4U]

Prove that mathematics causes the patterns , in and of its self . And that no physical objects and dynamics is not involved . Not refered to You can't .

All physical objects ARE mathematical patterns of various value densities. We have symbolized these expressed patterns with the term Physics.

Cause and Effect is not a purely physical or teleological function, it's a deterministic mathematical function.

One might say that mathematics are the idealized guiding equations yielding variable physical results, depending on external pressures.

Witness David Bohm's; "Implicate Order" (enfolded potential ability), and "Explicate Order" (unfolded potential expression).
These two states (orders) are both mathematical in essence, but not both physical in reality and may not necessarily become expressed in physical reality.

Example: a mountain lake has the mathematical potential for conversion into enormous electric energy, but until we build a gravity fed turbine/generator this potential will remain dormant and "unrealized" as a teleological (goal oriented) function.

 

[river]

All physical objects ARE mathematical patterns of various value densities. We have symbolized these expressed patterns with the term Physics.

Cause and Effect is not a purely physical or teleological function, it's a deterministic mathematical function.

One might say that mathematics are the idealized guiding equations yielding variable physical results, depending on external pressures.

Witness David Bohm's; "Implicate Order" (enfolded potential ability), and "Explicate Order" (unfolded potential expression).
These two states (orders) are both mathematical in essence, but not both physical in reality and may not necessarily become expressed in physical reality.

Example: a mountain lake has the mathematical potential for conversion into enormous electric energy, but until we build a gravity fed turbine/generator this potential will remain dormant and "unrealized" as a teleological (goal oriented) function.

All based on the Physical .

External Pressures based on the Physical .

The patterns of the physical is Natural to the fundamental existence of anything physical . Without patterns , consistency , the physical could not exist . Mathematics just draws out these patterns within the physical structure . Hence the awareness of patterns .

 

[river]

All based on the Physical .

External Pressures based on the Physical .

The patterns of the physical is Natural to the fundamental existence of anything physical . Without patterns , consistency , the physical could not exist . Mathematics just draws out these patterns within the physical structure . Hence the awareness of patterns .

There are no patterns that exist in space devoid of anything physical .

 

[Steve Klinko]

And what does a neural net do? It calculates differential equations, which can be naturally acquired.

What do you mean, it calculates differential equations? Do you mean that the Weights can be set with DE?

 

[Write4U]

What do you mean, it calculates differential equations? Do you mean that the Weights can be set with DE?

A differential equation is the rate of difference between two values.
Electrical current is produced by the differential equation between a positive and a negative pole.

 

[Write4U]

Electrical current is produced by the differential equation between a positive and a negative pole.

An AI depends on electrical differential equations which it can detect, monitor and measure. IMO, that's tantamount to a form of "feeling".
Does a thermometer feel temperature? Does a thermostat feel the room temperature falling and turn on the furnace?
AI may not be a sentient biological organism but it can be a sensory mechanical system. Does that count?

 

[DaveC426913]

A differential equation is the rate of difference between two values.
Electrical current is produced by the differential equation between a positive and a negative pole.

This is an egregious mangling of what these things actually are. As usual, you've taken some things you've read and mixed the words up (including dropping a bunch) because you do not grasp the meaning. For some reason, you don't think this is obvious to everyone else.

And that wouldn't be so bad, except you then compound the problem by leveraging that error to make more errors:

An AI depends on electrical differential equations which it can detect, monitor and measure. IMO, that's tantamount to a form of "feeling".

 

[Write4U]

This is an egregious mangling of what these things actually are. As usual, you've taken some things you've read and mixed the words up (including dropping a bunch) because you do not grasp the meaning. For some reason, you don't think this is obvious to everyone else.

No Dave it isn't. I have posted the scientific definition of "differential equation" before in relation to biology.

differential equations play a prominent role in many disciplines including engineering,
physics, economics, and biology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_equation

And that wouldn't be so bad, except you then compound the problem by leveraging that error to make more errors:

How so?
What is wrong with this example?

Sample problem - Thermometer

The movement of mercury in the capillary of a thermometer can be modeled by a first order differential equation. The input to the system is the temperature of the liquid being measured and the output is the temperature displayed on the thermometer scale.

https://eleceng.dit.ie/gavin/Control/Modeling/SP Thermometer.htm

If you can model it, you can construct a differential equation measuring device.

 

[Michael 345]

bad

Bad or good DaveC426913 do you think safe to take WU off Iggy?

 

[Write4U]

Bad or good DaveC426913 do you think safe to take WU off Iggy?

Please don't. I have yet to see a constructive correction by the usual commentators of my "bad" science other than the usual ad hominem.

And to stay on topic;

Emotion

From a purely mechanistic perspective, emotions can be defined as "a positive or negative experience that is associated with a particular pattern of physiological activity."

Emotions produce different physiological, behavioral and cognitive changes. The original role of emotions was to motivate adaptive behaviors that in the past would have contributed to the passing on of genes through survival, reproduction, and kin selection

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion

Here is a comprehensive list of differential equations and measurement/control mechanisms;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_named_differential_equations#Classical_mechanics

 

[DaveC426913]

No Dave it isn't. I have posted the scientific definition of "differential equation" before in relation to biology.

Whether or not you have elsewhere is irrelevant, you didn't post it here where you try to use this word salad to support your next conclusion.

What is wrong with this example?

It's as baseless as the premises it's founded on. And as usual, you think that just mashing words together makes them mean real things.

 

[DaveC426913]

I have yet to see a constructive correction by the usual commentators of my "bad" science other than the usual ad hominem.

That you have yet to see them is part of the ongoing problem.


Also, you still don't know what an ad hominem is. (An another extant example of you not seeing your own errors.)

An ad hominem is an attack on the person behind the argument. I am dismantling your arguments - the ones you present here with your own words.

I don't think anyone has addressed anything that you yourself have not first laid out on the table here. Show me I'm wrong.

And to stay on topic;

To do that, you'll have to roll back a number of posts with baseless assertions.

No matter how high you try to build your argument, it's built on faulty foundations, and will not stand up.