Do you sense your own belief?

S

SkippingStones

splunk!
Registered Senior Member
All communication is based on common understanding, the ability to empathize and understand the other person's view. It seems that much of the controversy and vehemence that arises from spiritual and religious arguments could be eased with higher level of understanding between the parties.

All religious material stems from belief, plain and simple. I believe in that rock because I can see it. I believe in that noise because I can hear it.
Now the matter of believing in God is a little different because we can't witness God with our five senses like we can with the world. Still, the two types of belief must be related somehow. So what changes must take place for my unquestioning belief in that smoothness of the desk that I can touch to become an unquestioning belief in God. Well, lets look at my belief in touch. I touch something and I instantly believe that I have touched it. To believe in God the same way, I must sense God somehow, and in sensing, I will immediately believe that I have sensed... what? sensed God? God is a label. So take away the label. I sense.. and believe instantly.

So believers, I ask you so that I may better understand you... do you trully and unquestioningly believe in your sense of your belief? Without your background, without words, without your Christianity, without your teachings. Like your sense of touch, taste, smell, sight, and hearing... Do you sense God? If so, what does it feel like? What does it taste like? What does it smell, look, and hear like?
 
I think some people believe they have sophisticated Goddar which allows them to tell what the lord does and does not approve of, and whom it is safe to smite in the name of his wrath. They call me closed minded, a non-believer, a heathen, atheist, fool, liar, Satanist, and many other names when I question this ability, so I'm sure that is enough for some people to believe that this extra sense actually exists.
 
"If so, what does it feel like? What does it taste like? What does it smell, look, and hear like?"

God is a Spirit so these things don't apply.
 
God is a Spirit so these things don't apply.
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So how do you determine that there is this Spirit you speak of. How do you know this Spirit is in you? Use you're own words, don't quote the Bible.
 
SouthStar,

God is a Spirit so these things don't apply.
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As would be expected from something that doesn't exist.

I.e. something that cannot be detected or sensed by any means is indistinguishable from anything that does not exist.

Kat
 
I look around and see the colors of the world. I smell the fragrance he has given to the rose. I taste the sourness of a lemon and sweetness of an apple. I hear the song of the birds. I feel his presence surrounding me. that is why I believe.
 
Enigma'07 said:
I look around and see the colors of the world. I smell the fragrance he has given to the rose. I taste the sourness of a lemon and sweetness of an apple. I hear the song of the birds. I feel his presence surrounding me. that is why I believe.
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DITTO.......
 
I look around and see the colors of the world. I smell the fragrance he has given to the rose. I taste the sourness of a lemon and sweetness of an apple. I hear the song of the birds. I feel his presence surrounding me. that is why I believe.
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Yes! and THAT is God! ...not something built up in your mind based on a political religion and not something based on a scrambled bunch of writing.

In the words of Valentine Michael Smith, "Thou art God!"
..you grok?
 
Katazia said:
SouthStar,

As would be expected from something that doesn't exist.

I.e. something that cannot be detected or sensed by any means is indistinguishable from anything that does not exist.

Kat
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No one said anything about God being incapable of detection "by any means".

Way to twist words around.
 
SkippingStones said:
So how do you determine that there is this Spirit you speak of. How do you know this Spirit is in you? Use you're own words, don't quote the Bible.
Click to expand...

Again, I feel like I put this in every thread, but here it is: //sigh

Romans 1
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Professing to be wise, they became fools

This is what Kat is unable to see. She believes that God is undetectable and therefore cannot exist, although the verse reveals otherwise.

It should also answer your question. It tells us that God can be known without the Bible, that is we can know God exists without ever knowing a missionary or knowing what a Bible is. I expect you will have some questions so I won't try to explain it all here. Good day.
 
South Star,

This is what Kat is unable to see. She believes that God is undetectable and therefore cannot exist, although the verse reveals otherwise.

It should also answer your question. It tells us that God can be known without the Bible, that is we can know God exists without ever knowing a missionary or knowing what a Bible is.
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If I would never read the Bible, nor speak to any believers or missionaries -- I take I still may have some idea of God.
Yet believers like you tend to tell me that this my belief is *not true* or *not good enough* -- I have been told so by several Christians.

If you say that I can know God without the Bible -- how can you ever say that my belief in God is wrong or not enough?
 
Yet believers like you tend to tell me that this my belief is *not true*
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Well, this would be expected if the person has sufficient faith in his own faith.

or *not good enough* -- I have been told so by several Christians.
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The way one discovers whether his or her belief is good enough is by observing the consequences of the belief. Does your belief cause you do to bad or to do good? Does your belief give life or death in pride, hate, lust? Still, "good enough" does not mean perfect or always correct.
 
SOUTHSTAR
QUOTE Romans 1
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Professing to be wise, they became fools

This is what Kat is unable to see. She believes that God is undetectable and therefore cannot exist, although the verse reveals otherwise.

It should also answer your question. It tells us that God can be known without the Bible, that is we can know God exists without ever knowing a missionary or knowing what a Bible is. I expect you will have some questions so I won't try to explain it all here. Good day.

YOU GOT THAT FROM A BOOK,
WRITEN BY MAN, IT'S JUST HEARSAY.
PROVE YOU ARGUEMENT, BY USING SOMETHING MORE PLAUSABLE"PLEASE".
 
It tells us that God can be known without the Bible, that is we can know God exists without ever knowing a missionary or knowing what a Bible is.
Click to expand...

Then, you could say, I believe in the non-Biblicated, non-Christianized God, in the humanness of my thoughts, perceptions, and life. I believe in the world, in ever blade of grass, in every molecule.

But! You're Bible means nothing to me, as do your teachings on most anything Christian. I have my God, why should I just befuddle it with words and jargon. And, since every human is human, they have the same base existence I have, why should I force them into a reflection of me? So, I attempt to understand you, so that I can find some purpose for your evangelism, and if not, figure out a way to keep it from killing me, and the world.

The Bible is words, and only words. Words are just noise, no greater than any other noise. I can say "My God" but that is not my god, that is only noise.
 
Okinrus,


The way one discovers whether his or her belief is good enough is by observing the consequences of the belief. Does your belief cause you do to bad or to do good? Does your belief give life or death in pride, hate, lust? Still, "good enough" does not mean perfect or always correct.
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Who is to say what is correct?
If the Bible says that even without it I can know God -- how can you judge anyone, when you have agreed that the Bible is not the ultimate measure?
 
If the Bible says that even without it I can know God
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It doesn't, but there were Christians who could not read.

how can you judge anyone, when you have agreed that the Bible is not the ultimate measure?
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Your not supposed to judge anyone, but you are supposed to judge what you believe is correct.
 
okinrus said:
It doesn't, but there were Christians who could not read.


Your not supposed to judge anyone, but you are supposed to judge what you believe is correct.
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Correct by whose standards?
 
the preacher said:
SOUTHSTAR
QUOTE Romans 1
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Professing to be wise, they became fools

This is what Kat is unable to see. She believes that God is undetectable and therefore cannot exist, although the verse reveals otherwise.

It should also answer your question. It tells us that God can be known without the Bible, that is we can know God exists without ever knowing a missionary or knowing what a Bible is. I expect you will have some questions so I won't try to explain it all here. Good day.

YOU GOT THAT FROM A BOOK,
WRITEN BY MAN, IT'S JUST HEARSAY.
PROVE YOU ARGUEMENT, BY USING SOMETHING MORE PLAUSABLE"PLEASE".
Click to expand...

Tell me sir, why do you use quotation marks around 'please'?

You must NOT use the word "written", and especially NOT "writen".. ;)

You must first understand that the Bible was penned by man, not written by man. It is heresy of the utmost malevolence to arrogantly believe otherwise.

Now I hope you know the difference and are able to continue interpreting the Holy text.
 
Correct by whose standards?
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If your belief does not give love, peace, good works, hope, trust and the rest of the virtues then it is flawed in someway. Of course, someone could say love, peace, and good works are not what they desire, but such a person would have little desire for the truth anyway since without desire for truth, their can be no truth. What is correct gives and is the source of life. This is correct by our standards and by God.

Most atheists desire the virtues but their belief gives them none because their belief is false. Still, God may yet give without them knowing who it is who gives.

It is not the only way that God reveals what is truth but the most simple. You sow what you reap, and that which is false will have destructive consequences.
 
Okinrus,

If your belief does not give love, peace, good works, hope, trust and the rest of the virtues then it is flawed in someway.
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And yet -- all love, peace, good works, hope, trust and the rest of the virtues -- that one may have and do, are *completely worthless* if done by a non-Christian, right?
 
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