Do you love God?

[water]

I have my moments of really loving God.

But what does this feel like to you? Do you feel, say, think things like David, for example?

Is your love for God in any way comparable to the love you have for a human? Is it something completely different, something compleltely alike, ...?


* * *

Do you love God?

I think I do, at least I try to. Love is a decision. I decided to love God, the same as I decided to love my wife.

I think this needs some clarification -- regarding what *lead* you to make that decision. And I can imagine this isn't exactly easy or self-evident.

How does one know whether one loves God?

By decision, ref first question.

I see that. But how do you, at yourself, by examining your everyday breathing, being, and working -- how do you recognize your own love for God? What is it about you that you see that you do or think, and then you recognize this as your love for God?

Also, Jesus says if you don't love him you don't love God.

Ironically or not, I can imagine to love God, but I cannot imagine to love Jesus.

How is one to love God?

As much as possible, ref previous question

Yes, but how? Can God be hugged, kissed, made breakfast for, send birthday card to?

What does it mean to love God?

It means that I want to be as much like him as I can in my own character. He is a friend as well as God.

But do you know what God is like?

If we agree, for example, that God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent: If you want to be as much as God (in your own character though) -- what are your aspirations regarding omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence?


* * *

Do you love God?


Yes...more than anything or anyone.


How does one know whether one loves God?


How do you know whether you love anything or anyone? You feel it...you recognize it. As He loves you first...how can you help yourself? How could you not? God is love.

Well, I don't feel anything.

I don't see myself doing anything by which I could say that I *love* God.
I get up five times a night for my cat -- but what do I do for God?

How is one to love God?

You commune with Him...and in trust, you give yourself to Him more and more.

Lori, please don't think I am being deliberately difficult. I just wish to understand.
How does one commune with God?
What does one do to commune with God?

What does it mean to love God?

It means everything...every single little thing.

What exactly do you mean? That to love God means to love every single little thing?


* * *

If love is a decision, then it's not love when a man and a woman "loves" each other.
We never choose to fall in love, it just happens, it's attraction, magnetism...

In that case, the decision in love is when the two parties decide what to do with their emotions for eachother. Whether to abandon them, or whether to follow them -- and with what intentions.

However, a simple example like "They decided that all they want from their love was a fling" shows that the term "love" is problematic.
In this thread, let's try to keep to that love that we understand, more or less intuitively, to be love. Clarifications should come in answers to my questions.


* * *

most certainly not, I may as well love charles manson, or geoffery darmer, they killed less.

What, Skydaddy killed people? You really need to be consistent in your use of metaphors.


* * *

Also - it is easy to agree with: Audible; even if you believe in (any) god; the purpose of any spirituality is not to make the hereafter a better place - but the “here and now” a better place; love is for here (people here); even if it is god given it belongs here; not hanging on a cross of self-interest of supposed hereafter promised to those who think they have praised some secret/special name to receive an eternal gift.

Exactly.

* * *

I am not assuming anything actually; a myth is a textural claim; nothing more; it exists as evidence of the ability to write; other than that it proves nothing.

God in the abstract does not equate to Allah, Yahweh, Zeus, Odin, Yahweh-Yeshua-Holy-Ghost Trinity construct either. Nor am I speaking of God-myths.

This is a very good way to put it. I would like you to start a thread on this issue -- how a generic god, a god in the abstract does not equate to actual gods known in human history, and what implications this has on the discourse about god/s.
You seem to be more knowledgeable about this than me. I think we could really use some threads of this kind -- as many arguments here are for or against god, but it is not always clear for or against which god. And then misunderstandings go on and on.

Really, I would like you to think about this topic some more and post a thread. It deserves a lot of attention.


* * *

dont be stupid,
how can she be living in the realms of fantasy, shes an atheist.
as I, she has no believe in a sky daddy, only the delusional theist believe in fantasy creatures.

Are Krishna, Morana, Odin, Osiris skydaddies, for example?


* * *

You assume god-authority; when you speak of judgment and condemnation.
You assume an atheist is a threat to a possible-god; but it cannot be.
You assume forgiveness is not given - already; yet that choice is not yours.
You assume evil; enemy; devil in people where no such thing exists.
You assume all souls are thirsty for the same drink - you want.
You assume endlessly; of things that you know not.

I disagree. She is holding a certain ethical stance, with certain values and preferences which lead to the judgement statements she makes.

Just like you are holding a certain ethical stance, with certain values and preferences which lead to the judgement statements you make.

It's like this for everyone.

 

[§outh§tar]

It's like this for everyone

All your statements are generalizations.

 

[§outh§tar]

babies for one, are the most obvious and transparent expressions of emotion without intellect. surely you have feelings? those feelings are not dependent on intelligence. joy is felt. hate is felt. anger is felt. sadness is felt. love is felt.

babies cry. Is that the most obvious and transparent expressions of emotions without intellect?

Maybe if they even knew they were crying you would have a case. But if they don't know they are crying, how can that be considered a 'transparent" expression. Since when did you know when babies felt joy or hate or anger or sadness or love.

Don't make judgements based on the outward appearance. Not of a baby and not of a man.

 

[ellion]

babies cry. Is that the most obvious and transparent expressions of emotions without intellect?

Maybe if they even knew they were crying you would have a case. But if they don't know they are crying, how can that be considered a 'transparent" expression. Since when did you know when babies felt joy or hate or anger or sadness or love.

Don't make judgements based on the outward appearance. Not of a baby and not of a man.

thanks but i dont need your advice on how to make judgements.

you must be a pretty nasty piece of work if you have only ever seen babies cry.

besides the fact crying is a transparent and obvious expression of emotion, which does not need intelligence and this was the point i was making.

you dont have to think love you have to feel love.

 

[§outh§tar]

thanks but i dont need your advice on how to make judgements.

you must be a pretty nasty piece of work if you have only ever seen babies cry.

besides the fact crying is a transparent and obvious expression of emotion, which does not need intelligence and this was the point i was making.

If babies do not know they are crying how can they be 'expressing' an emotion?

you dont have to think love you have to feel love.

Save it for Hallmark. Valentine's day is gone.

 

[ellion]

If babies do not know they are crying how can they be 'expressing' an emotion?

now you are talking sh!t. do we need to discuss the meaning of the word 'expression'?

how do you know when a baby is upset? it cries. how do you know when a baby is happy? it laugh's. these are expressions of emotion.
you do not need to think to be able to feel.

 

[Lori_7]

and a true statement dont be stupid,
how can she be living in the realms of fantasy, shes an atheist.
as I, she has no believe in a sky daddy, only the delusional theist believe in fantasy creatures.

The humility is almost overwhelming.

The most detrimental thing, intellectually and otherwise, that anyone could ever do is to assume that they know it all already. When you understand that the meaning of this life is to seek the truth. While the truth about God is not something that can be intellectualized...only experienced.

Having the wrong intentions can make you retarded.

She can be living in the realms of fantasy if indeed God does exist, there is evidence of Him everywhere and in all things including herself, and all she and anyone else has to do to experience Him and know Him is to sincerely want to. People believe what they want to believe, but it is a prudent, intelligent, and sane person who understands that what they believe has absolutely no bearing on what the truth actually is. Because it is that well-founded realization that keeps you open-minded and learning. Humility keeps your intentions sincere as you seek...so that what you seek is the truth, no matter what the truth may be. In this life, you get what you ask for. You want the truth, you get it....you want a lie, you get it...so be careful. If you spend your life denying God and not wanting a relationship with Him, then that is exactly what you will get. I've heard atheists try to turn it around and blame Him for giving them exactly what they want...exactly what they desire and so ask for. Blame yourself...after all, the hardest part about getting to know God is wanting to. That's sincerely all you have to do...the rest of it, He takes care of and does so perfectly.

Love,

Lori

 

[audible]

The humility is almost overwhelming.


The most detrimental thing, intellectually and otherwise, that anyone could ever do is to assume that they know it all already.

well you welcome to prove there is a god, and please dont say ( you prove it does'nt exist, that just plain stupid.)

When you understand that the meaning of this life is to seek the truth.

been there done that, brought the teeshirt, hence why I became an atheist.

While the truth about God is not something that can be intellectualized...only experienced.

exactly fantasized.

Having the wrong intentions can make you retarded.

believing in a god means you already are

She can be living in the realms of fantasy if indeed God does exist, there is evidence of Him everywhere and in all things including herself, and all she and anyone else has to do to experience Him and know Him is to sincerely want to.

as above your welcome to prove it exists.

People believe what they want to believe, but it is a prudent, intelligent, and sane person who understands that what they believe has absolutely no bearing on what the truth actually is.

wtf !!!!

Because it is that well-founded realization that keeps you open-minded and learning.

realization, your having a laugh

Humility keeps your intentions sincere as you seek...so that what you seek is the truth, no matter what the truth may be. In this life, you get what you ask for. You want the truth, you get it....you want a lie, you get it...so be careful. If you spend your life denying God and not wanting a relationship with Him, then that is exactly what you will get.

wtf !!!! you cant deny that which does not exist.

I've heard atheists try to turn it around and blame Him for giving them exactly what they want...exactly what they desire and so ask for.

no you have'nt they dont do that please dont be stupid.

Blame yourself...after all, the hardest part about getting to know God is wanting to. That's sincerely all you have to do...the rest of it, He takes care of and does so perfectly.

so if I get drunk, take drugs, go mad, I be able to see,
I need to be delusional first.
then I will be able to see this non-existant thing, but hey that would just be living in the realms of fantasy.

 

[cole grey]

Lori says, "People believe what they want to believe, but it is a prudent, intelligent, and sane person who understands that what they believe has absolutely no bearing on what the truth actually is. "

Audible says, "wtf !!!!"

This is just obvious. What a person believes does not have an effect on objective truths that are not affected by human action, the truths described by scientific laws, and the existence/non-existence of God, for example.

When people thought the earth was flat, it wasn't.

Unless you are prepared to take the stand of solipsism, you must agree with this.

 

[§outh§tar]

now you are talking sh!t. do we need to discuss the meaning of the word 'expression'?

how do you know when a baby is upset? it cries. how do you know when a baby is happy? it laugh's. these are expressions of emotion.
you do not need to think to be able to feel.

I see you truly believe that. When you are held at gunpoint, remember your own counsel. I hope it serves you well.

 

[Lori_7]

Not true . . .
Simply stating "I disagree" does not equate - to it not being true.

On any philosophy; merely debating its merits and deficits; does not equal judging a person.
There is a major difference in assuming people are evil and destined for hell; based on myth, personal psychology and hearsay - than - debating what motivates a person who’s cultural learning may be different.

And it is not “ethics”; I am talking about; it is a (falsely) assumed moral superiority. And also I was specifically talking about “in mind” assumptions. Most people are an enigma unto themselves; a riddle of myth, superstition, fear and assumptions. If they think it (in mind); they assume it’s true.

I was specifically pointing out the assumptions she makes; and they are endless; and even baseless.

You are not describing me...those are not my assumptions...they're yours. Please don't project. You don't understand me...because you don't want to...because you believe that you have me all figured out already. Think what you want.

Love,


Lori

 

[audible]

Lori says, "People believe what they want to believe, but it is a prudent, intelligent, and sane person who understands that what they believe has absolutely no bearing on what the truth actually is. "

Audible says, "wtf !!!!"

This is just obvious. What a person believes does not have an effect on objective truths that are not affected by human action, the truths described by scientific laws, and the existence/non-existence of God, for example.

yes it is and was obvious, but not in the context of her statement.
she asserts that she knows god and jesus, and we could know it the same way, if we want to.
this is a contradiction to that statement, her idea of truth is not necessarily
the right one either. thats why the wtf !!!

check it out

The humility is almost overwhelming.
The most detrimental thing, intellectually and otherwise, that anyone could ever do is to assume that they know it all already.
When you understand that the meaning of this life is to seek the truth.
While the truth about God is not something that can be intellectualized...only experienced.
Having the wrong intentions can make you retarded.
She can be living in the realms of fantasy if indeed God does exist, there is evidence of Him everywhere and in all things including herself, and all she and anyone else has to do to experience Him and know Him is to sincerely want to.

 

[water]

Not true . . .
Simply stating "I disagree" does not equate - to it not being true.

Take this up with SouthStar.

On any philosophy; merely debating its merits and deficits; does not equal judging a person.

There are different uses of the word "to judge". As in: I judged that since the roads are all snowy this morning, it is better that I take the bus.

One thing is to judge someone with the intention to condemn them. This is not hiw I used "judge".

Something else is to judge someone or something with the purpose to evaluate, grade, make distinctions, take a position to, express one's opinion regarding something. This is the sense how I used "judge".

There is a major difference in assuming people are evil and destined for hell; based on myth, personal psychology and hearsay - than - debating what motivates a person who’s cultural learning may be different.

Are you assuming a neutral position?

And it is not “ethics”; I am talking about;

How not?

it is a (falsely) assumed moral superiority.

I vehemently oppose. Anyone expressing their values and preferences, taking position to something can be accused of "assumed moral superiority". The only way of not being accused of that is to say nothing.

If one would go ahead and say things like "I condemn you in the name of my God" -- this is assumed moral superiority.

But holding a stance, having an opinion and expressing it is not assumed moral superiority.

I was specifically pointing out the assumptions she makes; and they are endless; and even baseless.

Do you know SouthStar's posts from the last two months?

 

[ellion]

I see you truly believe that.

i do truly belive that people can feel and express emotion without intellectualizing.

i also truly belive your talking sh!t

which of my beliefs where you referring to?

When you are held at gunpoint, remember your own counsel. I hope it serves you well.

what exactly are you saying?
is this a suggestion that someone other than myself knows better how i should react to a promise of death?

 

[Jenyar]

Water,

Essentially, our love of God should be an imitation of His love for us, not only towards Him but towards all people. It has been practiced by faith throughout history, but in Christ we have evidence of God's love -- our faith is made perfect and God's love is made perfect. That is what love looks like: not that we loved God, but that he loved us (1 John 4:10).

The best way to understand how we love God is to see how love is defined, for instance 1 Cor. 13, 1 John 1-4, and in the pastoral letters like Titus or Timothy, where we can see what the opposite of loving God described:

2 Timothy 3:2-5 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God — having a form of godliness but denying its power.​

Love, exercised in the way defined by God, is obedience to God, and believing God by obeying Him is how we love Him: it is God's love in us (1 John 2:5 But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him.) Getting up five times a night for your cat is love, because that is what it means to love with heart, mind and soul. As Lori said: it means every single little thing. You don't get up because of the cat, or even because of God, you get up because you love. As God is, love is. It's not a clichéd one-liner "God is love", it is a meaningful realization and a powerful command "God is... love!". For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline (2 Timothy 1:7).

It is not enough to just tell someone you love them, you must show your "love": what you mean by that love, how you understand love. Even if you really love them, love alone is not enough. It is most properly defined in practice.

You said, "I can imagine to love God, but I cannot imagine to love Jesus." Jesus is how God showed us his love. He is how God proved his love to us just as He defined it; in word and deed. That is why John says: "everyone who loves the father loves his child as well" (1 John 5:1). The love that God displayed, and which Jesus taught, are not two separate things. Jesus is God's love, and therefore ours. They seamlessly acted as One. If we believe Jesus, we believe God.

1 John 5:2-4
This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.​

 

[water]

? Southstar ? Sorry you lost me, I was generalizing ideas; perceptions, to Lori.

Yes, because he is your man when it comes to the theory of assumptions, justifications and such.

 

[§outh§tar]

Yes, because he is your man when it comes to the theory of assumptions, justifications and such.

Chief agnoiologist at your service.

What would you like to believe?

 

[cole grey]

Water asks, "But what does this feel like to you? Do you feel, say, think things like David, for example?"

I think, and feel some of the positive and negative emotions described by David. There are times when it feels like God is very much present, and then there are times when I feel like God has just left me on the planet to figure it out on my own (the bible has some great general instructions, but it leaves most of my specific questions unanswered.)

Water asks, "Is your love for God in any way comparable to the love you have for a human? Is it something completely different, something compleltely alike, ...?"

It is similar in some ways, different in others. I think feelings for God come from knowing God, and that isn't as simple as knowing a person, as complicated as knowing a person can be, so it is hard for me to explain.

 

[Woody]

Hey Cole,

I love God and I love good music too:

Blues Jam

The guitar is a tokai copy hollow body. Some first class blues guitar!

 

[water]

If we believe Jesus, we believe God.

Is this reversable -- if we believe God, do we believe Jesus?


And I just can't hold the idea in my head that to love God is to obey His commandments.
Obeying is something that makes the one who obeys to be forever less than the one whom he is obeying. Obeying puts the obeying one down. Obeying is at least unpleasant. Obeying is something one normally wouldn't do. Obeying comes at the cost of self-respect.

Now, to replace "obey" with "love":

Loving is something that makes the one who loves to be forever less than the one whom he is loving. Loving puts the loving one down. Loving is at least unpleasant. Loving is something one normally wouldn't do. Loving comes at the cost of self-respect.

Really?

So, to love God eventually comes at the cost of self-respect (and the other things mentioned above)?


* * *

It is similar in some ways, different in others. I think feelings for God come from knowing God, and that isn't as simple as knowing a person, as complicated as knowing a person can be, so it is hard for me to explain.

I understand that it is hard to explain. This is, after all, the reason I started this thread ...


* * *

Hey Cole,

I love God and I love good music too:

Blues Jam

The guitar is a tokai copy hollow body. Some first class blues guitar!

Alright. So posting that link and address the post to Cole Grey could be an example of Woody's love for Cole Grey ...