TheSonOfaBattlecry said:
Congratulations TheSonOfaBattlecry! Thats quite an accomplishment. I do have a question, if you had declared yourself as an atheist while living in your former muslim country, would you have been tortured or killed?
Do you have a question for an EX muslim??
- Thread starter TheSonOfaBattlecry
- Start date
Congratulations TheSonOfaBattlecry! Thats quite an accomplishment. I do have a question, if you had declared yourself as an atheist while living in your former muslim country, would you have been tortured or killed?
HI....can i ask you more quesys then:TheSonOfaBattlecry said:
ok: is it true that in Koran there are no references that Muslims must fight and/or destroy those of ote belief systems?
Is it true that there is no denigration of women. and no demand for tem to cover teir heads and bodies in veils?
Though you have dropped out of Islam, i hear you quoting Marx.........doyou hafve any regard for spirituality now?
TheSonOfaBattlecry
Registered Member
Congratulations TheSonOfaBattlecry! Thats quite an accomplishment. I do have a question, if you had declared yourself as an atheist while living in your former muslim country, would you have been tortured or killed?
- If i went in the streets shouting it or wrote a book about it then yeh probably both
ok: is it true that in Koran there are no references that Muslims must fight and/or destroy those of ote belief systems?
- not exactly, the purpose is to spreed islam by convincing if that doesnt work then yeah what you said, with exception for chirstians and jews(any religion with a holy book form god)
Is it true that there is no denigration of women. and no demand for tem to cover teir heads and bodies in veils?
-Thats bullshit every religion opress women, islam just takes it a bit too far.
Though you have dropped out of Islam, i hear you quoting Marx.........doyou hafve any regard for spirituality now?
- I can say Im a hardcore athiest, I didnt come to this cause i want to be different arrogant or cool, I came to this after searching and whole loads of reading about complete bullshit. I admit though marx had a major impact on me.
- If i went in the streets shouting it or wrote a book about it then yeh probably both
ok: is it true that in Koran there are no references that Muslims must fight and/or destroy those of ote belief systems?
- not exactly, the purpose is to spreed islam by convincing if that doesnt work then yeah what you said, with exception for chirstians and jews(any religion with a holy book form god)
Is it true that there is no denigration of women. and no demand for tem to cover teir heads and bodies in veils?
-Thats bullshit every religion opress women, islam just takes it a bit too far.
Though you have dropped out of Islam, i hear you quoting Marx.........doyou hafve any regard for spirituality now?
- I can say Im a hardcore athiest, I didnt come to this cause i want to be different arrogant or cool, I came to this after searching and whole loads of reading about complete bullshit. I admit though marx had a major impact on me.
usp8riot
Registered Senior Member
Battlecry, you're not someone posing as an ex just to denigrate Islam are you? Not that I am accusing you but just cautious. But to me, the "fight disbelievers" however it's quoted in the Quran since I'm no muslim, means to deny or keep them at bay in your mind so they don't tantalize you to succumb to their ways, as in "fight the urge". I think it's more than likely a simple misunderstanding, what the extremists are doing, as opposed to what Muhammed may have meant, unless I'm missing something. I've only read very little of the Quran but I can see where some parts can be taken out of context and used for evil purposes just like the Bible. But I do commend you for speaking out and letting others help understand.
TheSonOfaBattlecry, Hi there. I know quite a few atheist exMuslims from Iran. Do you think that Muslims from any particular country are more likely to become Atheist?
Also, I have a few freinds that are Aussies/USA/Canadian ect.. that lived in KSA for work. They said that they were surprised by the high numbers of gay Muslims in KSA but recon that this was because the boys and girls are separated during puberty.
What are your thoughts?
I though these ideas were interesting because they demonstrate how a strong religous culture actually undermines the religion. Like a self limiting mechanism.
Cheers
Michael
Also, I have a few freinds that are Aussies/USA/Canadian ect.. that lived in KSA for work. They said that they were surprised by the high numbers of gay Muslims in KSA but recon that this was because the boys and girls are separated during puberty.
What are your thoughts?
I though these ideas were interesting because they demonstrate how a strong religous culture actually undermines the religion. Like a self limiting mechanism.
Cheers
Michael
Welcome Son of a battlecry. Are you living in a muslim country? If so do you know any other atheists there?
TheSonOfaBattlecry
Registered Member
usp8riot
Battlecry, you're not someone posing as an ex just to denigrate Islam are you? Not that I am accusing you but just cautious. But to me, the "fight disbelievers" however it's quoted in the Quran since I'm no muslim, means to deny or keep them at bay in your mind so they don't tantalize you to succumb to their ways, as in "fight the urge". I think it's more than likely a simple misunderstanding, what the extremists are doing, as opposed to what Muhammed may have meant, unless I'm missing something. I've only read very little of the Quran but I can see where some parts can be taken out of context and used for evil purposes just like the Bible. But I do commend you for speaking out and letting others help understand.
- Not at all, if you read my previous posts you will see I defend Islam more than degrade it. Ok I admit I was unclear about the unbelievers and their situation in Islam, I will try and explain here. Most of the violence committed in the name is Islam is not ordered by the Koran cause believe it or not Islam is a peaceful religion. You might think im contradicting myself here as I said yeah you will be tortured or killed; well it all depends on how you translate certain scripts like the following:
Noble Verses 9:28-29 "O ye believe! Truly the pagans are unclear; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear povery, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, For Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, from among the people of the book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Noble Verse 9:5 "Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."
From the verses above some parties would look at it as an open jihad plan, but if you look carefully dates and times are specified ‘’Then, when the sacred months have passed’’ ‘’after this year ‘’. This was when Islam was young and the tribes tried destroying it, after that fighting was not necessary. However there are verses, which are very generalized and open for any sort of interpretation Arabic being a very flexible language like:
Noble Verse 8:12
Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them."
Noble Verse 9:73
Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their Home: an evil fate.
Noble Verse 4:144
Believers, do not choose the unbelievers rather than the faithful as your friends. Would you give Allah a clear proof against yourselves?
Ok there we see a different story of favouring the Muslims above the unbelievers; which is very understandable, its almost instinctive to defend your comrades. What I hate about Islam and god in general is the unclarity if he was so perfect the books shouldn’t have any leaks where retards can use as excuses to take lives. I cant say islam if a completely peaceful religion I would be a liar the descriptions of hell there is horrific and terrifying. In gerneral contradictions exist in every religion islam is no different anyway that’s my point of view.
Michael
TheSonOfaBattlecry, Hi there. I know quite a few atheist exMuslims from Iran. Do you think that Muslims from any particular country are more likely to become Atheist?
-Its probably Iran as the laws there are stupidly strict, people cant help but rebel, its unacceptable to force people to do what they don’t want. I think the Iranian government should focus more on unemployment and heroin addiction rather than a women showing her foot
Also, I have a few freinds that are Aussies/USA/Canadian ect.. that lived in KSA for work. They said that they were surprised by the high numbers of gay Muslims in KSA but recon that this was because the boys and girls are separated during puberty.
- I wont say they are gay, just heterosexuals, more like sailors or inmates they are happy to have a women but if not a man or a goat will do. That’s mostly happens cause of the lack of women, specially they cant lose their virginity unless they married.
I though these ideas were interesting because they demonstrate how a strong religous culture actually undermines the religion. Like a self limiting mechanism.
- This is a huge misunderstanding, the west has no view at all of the inside of our culture what you get is what you see from tv and newspapers which are mostly propaganda weather from the west to make us look worse or from the east where it makes us look united and strong. Even though Islam is taught from an early age, if I said the rituals are preformed by 50% of the Muslim population that would be an exaggeration. We like all others we have porn, football, beer, our girls like boys and our boys like to wank
Sock puppet path
Welcome Son of a battlecry. Are you living in a muslim country? If so do you know any other atheists there?
- I wont say there is plenty but they are not rare, communism has quite an influence where I came from.
Battlecry, you're not someone posing as an ex just to denigrate Islam are you? Not that I am accusing you but just cautious. But to me, the "fight disbelievers" however it's quoted in the Quran since I'm no muslim, means to deny or keep them at bay in your mind so they don't tantalize you to succumb to their ways, as in "fight the urge". I think it's more than likely a simple misunderstanding, what the extremists are doing, as opposed to what Muhammed may have meant, unless I'm missing something. I've only read very little of the Quran but I can see where some parts can be taken out of context and used for evil purposes just like the Bible. But I do commend you for speaking out and letting others help understand.
- Not at all, if you read my previous posts you will see I defend Islam more than degrade it. Ok I admit I was unclear about the unbelievers and their situation in Islam, I will try and explain here. Most of the violence committed in the name is Islam is not ordered by the Koran cause believe it or not Islam is a peaceful religion. You might think im contradicting myself here as I said yeah you will be tortured or killed; well it all depends on how you translate certain scripts like the following:
Noble Verses 9:28-29 "O ye believe! Truly the pagans are unclear; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear povery, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, For Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, from among the people of the book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Noble Verse 9:5 "Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."
From the verses above some parties would look at it as an open jihad plan, but if you look carefully dates and times are specified ‘’Then, when the sacred months have passed’’ ‘’after this year ‘’. This was when Islam was young and the tribes tried destroying it, after that fighting was not necessary. However there are verses, which are very generalized and open for any sort of interpretation Arabic being a very flexible language like:
Noble Verse 8:12
Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them."
Noble Verse 9:73
Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their Home: an evil fate.
Noble Verse 4:144
Believers, do not choose the unbelievers rather than the faithful as your friends. Would you give Allah a clear proof against yourselves?
Ok there we see a different story of favouring the Muslims above the unbelievers; which is very understandable, its almost instinctive to defend your comrades. What I hate about Islam and god in general is the unclarity if he was so perfect the books shouldn’t have any leaks where retards can use as excuses to take lives. I cant say islam if a completely peaceful religion I would be a liar the descriptions of hell there is horrific and terrifying. In gerneral contradictions exist in every religion islam is no different anyway that’s my point of view.
Michael
TheSonOfaBattlecry, Hi there. I know quite a few atheist exMuslims from Iran. Do you think that Muslims from any particular country are more likely to become Atheist?
-Its probably Iran as the laws there are stupidly strict, people cant help but rebel, its unacceptable to force people to do what they don’t want. I think the Iranian government should focus more on unemployment and heroin addiction rather than a women showing her foot
Also, I have a few freinds that are Aussies/USA/Canadian ect.. that lived in KSA for work. They said that they were surprised by the high numbers of gay Muslims in KSA but recon that this was because the boys and girls are separated during puberty.
- I wont say they are gay, just heterosexuals, more like sailors or inmates they are happy to have a women but if not a man or a goat will do. That’s mostly happens cause of the lack of women, specially they cant lose their virginity unless they married.
I though these ideas were interesting because they demonstrate how a strong religous culture actually undermines the religion. Like a self limiting mechanism.
- This is a huge misunderstanding, the west has no view at all of the inside of our culture what you get is what you see from tv and newspapers which are mostly propaganda weather from the west to make us look worse or from the east where it makes us look united and strong. Even though Islam is taught from an early age, if I said the rituals are preformed by 50% of the Muslim population that would be an exaggeration. We like all others we have porn, football, beer, our girls like boys and our boys like to wank
Sock puppet path
Welcome Son of a battlecry. Are you living in a muslim country? If so do you know any other atheists there?
- I wont say there is plenty but they are not rare, communism has quite an influence where I came from.
you see, look. it is quite simple. IF a mindset identifies with a 'God' who demands 'submission', then guess who invented tis 'god'--yeah, males! and the believers IN tis dogma , like teir invented 'Allah' will also fundamentally demand submission. it does so of its woomen, and those who rebel and certainly will of any who are 'outsiders'. I am not here just pickin on Islam, but on all patriarchal revealed religious dogmas.
And VERY much the same it is with our own supposedly athiestic secualr culture
snofabattlecry---sorry to press yu, but i am VERY interested in tis. i asked up if you knew passages in Koran that show prohibiton to psychedelics..? i am familiar in Judaic Christian Bibible but not that much with Koran
Also, tis is a challenge to your 'new belief' which you hint is ..kina into Marx...?
i first must inquire. why? whay Marx? hat was/is it that's attracted you to his writings etc?
And VERY much the same it is with our own supposedly athiestic secualr culture
snofabattlecry---sorry to press yu, but i am VERY interested in tis. i asked up if you knew passages in Koran that show prohibiton to psychedelics..? i am familiar in Judaic Christian Bibible but not that much with Koran
Also, tis is a challenge to your 'new belief' which you hint is ..kina into Marx...?
i first must inquire. why? whay Marx? hat was/is it that's attracted you to his writings etc?