Do you believe?

[KennyJC]

As for me, I do not currently understand how life can exist without a creator of some kind. I have looked at arguments regarding this topic and so far have found them all to be faith and ideology based. Even the "science" ones.

Evolution by natural selection is the process by which life is where it is today. Why complicate things by adding a 'creator' who apparently doesn't exist since life seems to create itself without the need for a creator. Religious folk cite consciousness as proof of god, whereas I will cite shit and parasites as proof for a godless universe.

If I was god, I would create life that didn't have to do a shit.

 

[greenberg]

It's a bad thing because it is deceiving. People that do good things just because God says 'if you do this you are welcome in paradise' are not doing these things because they want to do good, they do these things to get into paradise..
I am not sure what the word for it is, but it comes close to hypocrite.

Or their moral reasoning is simply on the Pre-Conventional level.

Edit - adding to the above:

- so we cannot simply suspect them of hypocrisy. Would you say children are hypocrites? Children tend to have the obedience and punishment orientation and the self-interest orientation. Many people even as adults don't develop past that stage of moral reasoning, or remain in this stage of moral reasoning only when it comes to particular issues.

 

[greenberg]

Yes, it does tend to wipe out the need for any personal responsibility for your actions.

That's odd because the Christians I know are the best at self-responsibility. They take responsibility for ALL their thoughts, beliefs, actions, etc... I don't know anyone who believes they don't choose their own sin.
That's odd because the Christians I know are the best at self-responsibility. They take responsibility for ALL their thoughts, beliefs, actions, etc... I don't know anyone who believes they don't choose their own sin.

A person who believes that they have been created by a supreme being ultimately will not and can not take responsibility for their own actions.

If a person believes that they have been created by a supreme being, they will also necessarily believe that ultimately, everything they do or happens to them is up to this supreme being.

 

[Enmos]

That is a fair question.

Perhaps people are different from each other and "need" different things or different belief systems to help them make some sense out of this life. Perhaps many people are looking for a sense of community and are just looking for a way to live and survive in this world.

As for me, I do not currently understand how life can exist without a creator of some kind. I have looked at arguments regarding this topic and so far have found them all to be faith and ideology based. Even the "science" ones. It seems to me like even science eventually reaches a place where it is no longer really science anymore, at least in any provable way, but instead becomes wishfull story telling and myth making. It is almost as though some of these people have a "need" for God not to exist.

If the Bible is not true but the possibility of the existence of God still remains then why would someone have any "need" for God not to exist?

Thanks

There is never a need for God not to exist, but you have to ask yourself why a God would exist. Is it logical ? If you look around you it sure looks as if everything can be explained by nature, then why assume something extraordinary ?
Ever heard the phrase "If it's not broken, don't fix it" ? Be creative

 

[Enmos]

Or their moral reasoning is simply on the Pre-Conventional level.

Edit - adding to the above:

- so we cannot simply suspect them of hypocrisy. Would you say children are hypocrites? Children tend to have the obedience and punishment orientation and the self-interest orientation. Many people even as adults don't develop past that stage of moral reasoning, or remain in this stage of moral reasoning only when it comes to particular issues.

Children are no hypocrites because they don't pretend to be selfless in doing good. Religious people must be selfless in acting to do good or else it is not really a virtue, right.. ? Or do you think God would buy into that ?

 

[losfomoT]

As for me, I do not currently understand how life can exist without a creator of some kind. I have looked at arguments regarding this topic and so far have found them all to be faith and ideology based. Even the "science" ones. It seems to me like even science eventually reaches a place where it is no longer really science anymore, at least in any provable way, but instead becomes wishfull story telling and myth making.

Science is not described as something that proves things. There will always be new things to learn and discover. You do not understand how life can exist without a creator of some kind... why? It is a mystery how the universe started... if the Big Bang happened, then what was before that? How did it start if there was nothing before? A simple answer is 'God made it all... life, the universe, and everything'. But then you have to be fair and ask 'where did God come from?' and you are still left with a mystery. So why introduce God in the first place? It doesn't really get you anywhere.

If the Bible is not true but the possibility of the existence of God still remains then why would someone have any "need" for God not to exist?

Thanks

It is not a 'need' for God not to exist. It is a need for the truth. Evidence says that God (at least the one we read about in the Bible) probably does not exist.

 

[greenberg]

Children are no hypocrites because they don't pretend to be selfless in doing good. Religious people must be selfless in acting to do good or else it is not really a virtue, right.. ? Or do you think God would buy into that ?

Some religious people are like children.

Just because someone is an adult does not mean their reasoning is mature.

 

[cosmictraveler]

Then there's people like this........

http://youtube.com/watch?v=niqVVENiY2c&feature=related

 

[Myles]

I have to watch how I respond because skinwalker infracts/warns me everytime I respond to a Christian question.

I believe and try to live by those verses. Christians are not perfect. They are human and they fall short. Ideally we would be angellic little creatures, but we're not. We're real. We get mad--especially about things like terrorism, criminal immigration, cruelty, etc...

It's especially hard not to judge not because we are constantly judging/making judgement calls in our minds.

I have "judged and condemned", but I have also "forgiven and given" 1000 times more than I "judged/condemned".

Interesting topic. And SOOO much more I could explain but I don't feel like getting banned.

How much have you given to those who dwell in shacks
On the other side of the tracks,
I mean the slobs
Who won't work just because there are no jobs ?
I find it obscene.
I've been there and seen.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

They seem to inhabit a virtual world of idealism over reality.

You know Spidey...

The more I think about this, the more I think this is really true.

Perhaps at the heart of it all is just a basic frustration with and dislike of reality. People hate, or are afraid of, the real world and so they just choose to substitute and live in a mental fantasy world instead. It is almost like a kind of self-hypnosis. Only it is very difficult to bring someone out of. You cannot just snap your fingers. Why do people love to go to escapist movies? Why is Disneyland so popular? Same reason?

I think that perhaps deep down many of them know it is fantasy but have learned to block reality at almost all cost. And that is tied to a need for happiness and joy in their life.

This makes me wonder then if it really is possible for man to live completely in reality and still also live in happiness and joy?

What do you think?

 

[Myles]

Bertrand Russel said something like " most people would sooner die than think; and they do".
It is much easier for people to accept authority than to think things through for themselves. So they accept the Bible, the Koran or some other holy book as expounded by someone else, " an expert".

Science encourages thinking because that is how progress is made. But the kind of thinking required is not natural. Considr the following :

If an Ancient Greek were asked why a stone falls he would say it was in its natiure to do so. The fact that this is no explanation would not be obvious to most people. Now consider all the "holy" books. They are "true" because they have divine authority in some sense or another. This makes "sense" to a lot of people so they accept it unquestioningly. The benefit of such ignorance is obvious. Bliss !

So it all boils down to whether one is satisfied to allow others to provide ready -made answers or whether one chooses to think for onself.

 

[Incriminating Convoy]

To give thought to the OP: Jesus stated what he said as guidelines for what we should live by. It wasn't meant to be followed perfectly and I believe that he understood this, that is why (in Christian belief) he died for our sins because he knew and understood that even though the guidelines he placed upon us would be followed, they wouldn't be followed perfectly and sin would happen.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

To give thought to the OP: Jesus stated what he said as guidelines for what we should live by. It wasn't meant to be followed perfectly and I believe that he understood this, that is why (in Christian belief) he died for our sins because he knew and understood that even though the guidelines he placed upon us would be followed, they wouldn't be followed perfectly and sin would happen.

Well, I am not sure.

These people probably thought that he was teaching His gospel and the way by which a person might be saved. Similarly, in another place He taught another man to follow the Law and then give away all of his possessions in order to be "saved". Is He trying to frustrate and mislead all of these people or what?

“Judge not, and you shall not be judged."

This is apparently about how not to be judged by God (salvation).

"Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned."

This is apparently about how not to be condemned by God (salvation).

"Forgive, and you will be forgiven."

This is apparently about how to be forgiven by God (salvation).

"Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.”

And this is apparently about a reciprocal relationship that exists between man and God that is based on how much we give to others.

All of these things are based on what we do and the kind of heart character we have, are they not? According to Jesus these things are the basis of our salvation.

Matthew 5:20
For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Again, was He lying to all of these people?