I wonder how many believers, when they sustain a crippling injury or devastating bereavement, when their fervent prayers for deliverance are answered by redoubled suffering, lose their faith. I imagine the evidence for this happening would be as anecdotal as for the reverse.
Do you atheists feel safety and happiness when ...
- Thread starter arifulislam
- Start date
Accepted and appreciated.
That's a false dilemma. First, I've seen no evidence that any theist would claim atheism unless they are concern trolling, in which case their motive would be to undermine atheism. Second, even if some are lying, the numbers are still insignificant, making such contribution even more so.
Quite frankly, if you are an atheist, you should accept my criteria, as it is strictly objective. Solid evidence of life-threatening experience to support a claim that people remain atheists through such.
Ah, but that's not the issue...
The issue is would an atheist, turn theist in grievous circumstances- but deny that out of embarrassment later? I mean, here he was claiming all that time there is no God to suddenly find him in a crater?
Doesn't sound like something someone would want to admit to. And many may find God in that crater, then let the belief go once out of the crater and has his wits back about him.
It's a creator crater.
Seriously... I shoulda been a comedian.
See above.^
Define: Solid Evidence. Lie detector test? We'd be hard pressed to find documented polygraphs (Which aren't exactly known for exacting accuracy) of atheists who had a harrowing experience just lying around for the perusing...
Where did the OP make any such claim?
No doubt, but does losing faith automatically equate to becoming an atheist, or is it more immediately just blaming a god?
Ok...
Quit being so picky. It's annoying. It's a perfectly legitimate response, thread nazi.
Very well put. If that cannot be understood, then they simply choose not to even try to understand it. If belief in a thing makes it real then there should be 8 tiny flying reindeer pulling a sled with an immortal fat elf delivering presents to children around the world every winter. because no adult's belief is as strong as that of a child.
Big Chiller
Registered Senior Member
But the OP doesn't take on the burden of proving a higher power...
The human nature in general is part of reality so what does it matter?
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Prove it.
Big Chiller
Registered Senior Member
@Neverfly
The OP gives a subjective account of being comforted by God not attempting to prove God.
Praying in a foxhole does not indicate faith in said prayer. It indicates hope. They are hoping that they have been wrong and that God will help them. It does not mean that they believe that he will. But in desperation when one believes they are about to die, what do they have to lose in asking for help of something they never believed in.
I'm atheist and I pray every time I play the lottery. Sometimes I even check my horoscope. The occasional giving in to whimsical fancy in no way creates a reality. Sometimes humans just delude themselves because it makes them feel good. My reading a horoscope or praying for a winning lottery ticket in no way indicates sincere belief in either astrology or god. I know even as I take part in these things that they are baseless and pointless. Only the lottery ticket stands any chance of being a good bet and what are the odds of actually winning?If I actually believed that stuff I would be terribly disappointed when they failed me.At the very least, I would be surprised.
Also the proclaimed faith of a so called believer does not in fact indicate true faith. Being willing to put ones faith to a test does. Unfortunately, like this wanna be snake charmer, testing one's faith usually proves unwise. Though he passed the test of his faith, it would appear that his god did not.
I'm atheist and I pray every time I play the lottery. Sometimes I even check my horoscope. The occasional giving in to whimsical fancy in no way creates a reality. Sometimes humans just delude themselves because it makes them feel good. My reading a horoscope or praying for a winning lottery ticket in no way indicates sincere belief in either astrology or god. I know even as I take part in these things that they are baseless and pointless. Only the lottery ticket stands any chance of being a good bet and what are the odds of actually winning?If I actually believed that stuff I would be terribly disappointed when they failed me.At the very least, I would be surprised.
Also the proclaimed faith of a so called believer does not in fact indicate true faith. Being willing to put ones faith to a test does. Unfortunately, like this wanna be snake charmer, testing one's faith usually proves unwise. Though he passed the test of his faith, it would appear that his god did not.
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No it doesn't I spent my share of time blaming god. But I didn't claim to be an atheist during that time. I usually would tell people I believe in God but he doesnt seem to know I exist. That is how I expressed my feelings at the time. I became an atheist when I realized there was no god to blame. And the only one responsible for the events in my life were me. And that I have control over my reality. Not an outside force.
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
Where did I claim the OP made any such claim?
I am addressing the OP's question about how humans deal with fear and danger and thateven if it can equate with a comforting idea, it does not necessarily equate with an idea that reflects reality.
K
keith1
Guest
I did a cursory search for "Who is the better marksman? Atheist or Theist? Nothing.
I'm sure many centuries of curious military investigation has answered the question.
And it is the question--one of survival. Which particular mindset is more distracting in a dangerous situation. That is how I'm interpreting this OP.
I'm sure many centuries of curious military investigation has answered the question.
And it is the question--one of survival. Which particular mindset is more distracting in a dangerous situation. That is how I'm interpreting this OP.
When I was young and told that God helps people through hard times, I noticed that, if anything, God must have been creating those hard times. So I turned out to be an atheist.
As for my source of strength? I think you may be referring to confidence, which for me comes from finally succeeding after failing many times.
I would feel very helpless if I were relying on God to save me from, say, cancer or something...and then one day I saw some huge disaster like Katrina, Haiti, Japan, the earthquake in China, etc.
I think I would start to panic after relying on that kind of help.
Perhaps you missed this bit:
From my earlier post:
Now you are throwing out red herrings, as I already said an objectively acceptable proof of having experienced a threat of death is such a permanent disability. This is especially so for a solder, where there is a fair amount of foreknowledge when entering a life-threatening situation, as opposed to a random accident.
Wow, only two pages of this thread, and already demonstrating Godwin's law.
seagypsy said:
And unless I've missed it, no one in this thread has claimed it does.
That's an important lesson for anyone to learn, whether atheist or not.
Then why are you arguing against an argument that hasn't even been made? What are you trying to prove? Does the possible lack of reality have any effect on the subjective experience?
The adage is not "There are no critically-wounded atheists in foxholes," but rather "There are no atheists in foxholes." The fact that there are soldiers currently in foxholes and safely returned from them who are professed atheists debunks that myth. And it's rather insulting to insinuate that (1) being in a foxhole is not a sufficiently life-threatening situation, and (2) that they are only atheists until the shells start falling. And don't let Syne fool you with this passive-aggressive "I never made an assertion" nonsense. He asked the question for a reason.
And the answer is yes, there are plenty of wounded atheist soldiers.
But I expect nothing less than this from the guy who claims that women are not assertive enough to be leaders.
And the answer is yes, there are plenty of wounded atheist soldiers.
But I expect nothing less than this from the guy who claims that women are not assertive enough to be leaders.
when Im in danger I try too stay cool and look for best possible way to get out of it,,worked so far..LOL