Do/Should gays go to hell?

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§outh§tar

is feeling caustic
Registered Senior Member
Arguing this on other forum and would like to know your responses.

By my understanding as a Christian, I believe the eternal Father does not create gays. No one was born gay. For it is written,

"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures"

So you see, do gay people DESERVE hell because they chose such a thing, or are they going to hell BECAUSE the Father has DULY cursed them so. Or are they in fact, pilgrims passing into Zion?


P.S. Hurray, my first post! Please respond :)
 
I'm to assume that this was a gift from whom exactly?

It killed off hundreds of Indians. Do you think they were all Christians?

If they weren't all Christians, did the cyclone not kill them prematurely, before they could hear 'the word' and be 'saved'?

Therefore, did they not got to Hell or at least Purgatory on account of a cyclone?

Who caused the cyclone?
Couldn't have been man; it was an event of nature!
Maybe it was the Devil?
Well, the Devil is God's creation, so God must be held ultimately responsible.

God sent those people to Hell... or at least Purgatory.



What makes you think he wouldn't make somebody gay, just to see'em get the free-ride to the Pit along with all those poor, unconverted Indians?
 
By my understanding as a Christian, I believe the eternal Father does not create gays. No one was born gay. For it is written,
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People are born with certain predisposition to certain sins. For instance, acholics often have predisposition to substance abuse.

"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures"
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I don't see how this statement is supporting your argument. Mankind after the fall is left with the lack of grace, not caused by God but by sin.

So you see, do gay people DESERVE hell because they chose such a thing, or are they going to hell BECAUSE the Father has DULY cursed them so. Or are they in fact, pilgrims passing into Zion?
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It's obvious that if we treat our body as an idol and do not repent, then we will surely go to hell. But many gays were abused when they were children or suffer psychological problems. In light of this, the Old Testament's condemnation of homosexual act is only stating that the homosexual act is wrong.
 
Are you saying you refuse to believe in it because you can't see it, you won't see it or there's no such thing as the "Bottomless Pit"?
 
okinrus said:
People are born with certain predisposition to certain sins. For instance, acholics often have predisposition to substance abuse.

True, I agree with your statement. But that is NOT the only factor contributing to such "disposition".

It's obvious that if we treat our body as an idol and do not repent, then we will surely go to hell. But many gays were abused when they were children or suffer psychological problems. In light of this, the Old Testament's condemnation of homosexual act is only stating that the homosexual act is wrong.
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Are you suggesting neither gays nor God is responsible for their current, shall we call it, condition? And what do you mean by "only"?
 
I know Christians have a real aversion to looking inside themselves for answers, but perhaps this might help.

Regarding the inherently "sinful" act of homosexual sex --

SouthStar, just a couple questions.

1. Could someone force you to change what sparks sexual attraction in you? And I don't mean, could someone hold a gun to your head and force you to have homosexual sex, but rather, could someone coerce you into actually finding someone of the same sex sexually attractive?

2. If your answer to #1 is yes, then you might ask yourself, why would roughly 10 percent of the population (consistently) consciously choose a sexual orientation that will likely result in increased schoolyard taunting, societal/religious condemnation, a strained relationship with one's family, and, if Christian, an eternity of hellfire?

3. If your answer to #1 is no, then the question arises, if you feel you cannot change your sexual orientation at will, then how can you assume others can?

Josh

It's just a ride. - Bill Hicks
 
First let me answer no.

Secondly, let me inform you FIRSTLY that we are ALL inclined to do "things which are not fitting."

True Christianity DOES NOT call for ANYONE to give up their sexual orientation before coming to Christ. Saying otherwise would be to spit in the face of the Son and say you don't need him to receive eternal salvation. Therefore your question is SLIGHTLY misguided, I have NOT stated that "others can", I have not asked for others to change, I will NOT ask for others to change.

That invalidates being a Christian, which requires total dependence on the sovereignty of the Father. Gays DO NOT have to be straight to "approach", "become" Christians in a sense that God already HAS the power to change them.

Unfortunately, there is an abundant interpretation that Christiandom holds homosexuality to be much worse than a lying tongue or a stubborn child, this may or may not be true. The point is.. all sinners are equally putrid in comparison to ABSOLUTE holiness.

I'll finalize my point sometime tomorrow, Josh, right now I have to get some sleep. Thanks for talking everyone, hurrah once again on my first post :D
 
Yo Okinrus,

Alcoholism is a progressive disease like diabetes. Is a diabetic sinful?

Allcare.
 
Alcoholism is a progressive disease like diabetes. Is a diabetic sinful?
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No, because the diabetic usually does not have control over their diabetes. But being a diabetic and not taking care of oneself might be construed as being sinful. Nevertheless, the key reason why being an alcoholic and not being treated is sinful is because the person treats alcholol as if it is more important than God, family and friends.
 
So you see, do gay people DESERVE hell because they chose such a thing, or are they going to hell BECAUSE the Father has DULY cursed them so. Or are they in fact, pilgrims passing into Zion?
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Do presumptuous asse* narrow minded christians DESERVE hell because they choose to be that way, or are they going to hell BECAUSE the Father has DULY cursed them so?

PS
Congratulations on your first post
 
Okin,

No, because the diabetic usually does not have control over their diabetes.
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Pehaps I'm wrong, but I was always under the impression an alcoholic does not have control over alcohol.
 
Whether or not they do/should go to hell is entirely up to God. There is no point in discussing it because A. we have no control over it and B. Who the hell are we to question His will and judgment?

Live and let live and love your fellow man as you wish to be loved by God.
 
Nature makes all kinds of mistakes when it comes to procreation. There's twins, mongoloids, infants with all kinds of deformities. Some people are born with genes that protect them from heart disease others have genes that pre-dispose them to heart disease. Some people are smart some arent.

Simply put nature isnt perfect, it makes all types of errors to DNA. Some "errors" are benefecial such as the people with the heart protection gene. It's possible for some males to have some hormonal variation that modifys one's behavior to appear as feminine, and the same applies to females.

One good test of the theory is to observe the animal world such as the ape world where homosexuality is practiced. Another observation has been made with the study of twins. If one twin is gay there's a high chance the other twin is gay.

I had a dog that I swear was gay, every time it saw another male dog it would try to give the other dog a BJ.

What else can I say to convince you of natures follies?
 
chunkylover58 Who the hell are we to question His will and judgment?[/quote said:
Live and let live and love your fellow man as you wish to be loved by God.
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so God is male??
wouldnt that make every man worshiping/loving God gay?or at least having gay thoughts? :eek:
makes one wonder why so many priests turn homo,eh?
 
§outh§tar said:
By my understanding as a Christian, I believe the eternal Father does not create gays. No one was born gay. For it is written,

"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures"

So you see, do gay people DESERVE hell because they chose such a thing,
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they didnt choose nothing,they were born that way.

if you believe God created all than He is the one to blame,can't dispute that can you? :p
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and they can tell me what to do with my dick when they pry it off my cold dead hands :D
 
I'm not sure why people keep using the word homosexuality to mean sin. At no point in the bible is the word homosexuality or preference for the same sex ever mentioned in the bible. The extent of this is that while lust and the act are sinful, there's no sin being attracted to the other sex.

Our predisposition to sin is caused by the fall of Adam. The lack of grace creates a void that if not completed with Love creates a void that ultimately destroys one's soul. This void along with demons are what causes mankind to sin.

Pehaps I'm wrong, but I was always under the impression an alcoholic does not have control over alcohol.
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An alcoholic does not have full control. At some point he or she may not have any free will in the matter of their addiction. However, by then they may still be commiting a sin by not reaching out for help.
 
Q25 said:
if you believe God created all than He is the one to blame,can't dispute that can you? :p
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Some people say God, being the eternal Father, is the Author of sin. Being the Author of sin would invalidate the concept of free will and perhaps that makes such a statement erroneous to Christians.

If God MAKES you sin, which I'm not actually clear on, since being GOD, He can do whatever He pleases but since we come presuming He HATES sin, can we say that He CREATED something just so He can hate it?

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Do presumptuous asse* narrow minded christians DESERVE hell because they choose to be that way, or are they going to hell BECAUSE the Father has DULY cursed them so?
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Congratulations on the introspective, intelligent retort heart, and why, thank you. :)
 
heart said:
Okin,



Pehaps I'm wrong, but I was always under the impression an alcoholic does not have control over alcohol.
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of course not, it just happens to magically appear in their liver and their health apparently begins to suffer for no reason. I'm sure no alcoholic ever had a chance of saying no to that beer can, not ALL the familial help and communities out there could give him/her "control over the alcohol."

Needless to say, a fool and his money are soon parted. ;)
 
§outh§tar said:
of course not, it just happens to magically appear in their liver and their health apparently begins to suffer for no reason. I'm sure no alcoholic ever had a chance of saying no to that beer can, not ALL the familial help and communities out there could give him/her "control over the alcohol."

Needless to say, a fool and his money are soon parted. ;)
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you obviously dont know much about alcoholism or anyone who was/is an alcoholic. you are terribly naive
 
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