Did Muhammad ever drink wine or sin?

Michael said:
given the contemporary written evidence i'd say this back story is good evidence for early literary creativeness. Framing the character, fleshing him out so he becomes more "real" and believable. You start to think: I know this guy, I empathize with him as a person. You can't have a good literary protagonist without an interesting back story.

It should be noted Harry Potter was also an orphan. Harry Potter also discovers (at the age of eleven) that he is special and has magical abilities. Of course a modern audience needs a bit more magic and drama to keep their attention. When Harry was a baby he witnessed his parents' murder by Lord Voldemort - a dark wizard obsessed with blood purity.

Interesting no?
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Well Mohammed was just a lowly merchant for much of his life. It was only after he was 40 that he became involved with religion. People tend to forget the first 40 years of his life because all he is known for is the next 23 years.
 
S.A.M. said:
Was there wine in Arabia?
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At the time of the Prophet? I'd find it difficult to believe there wasn't, offhand. All of the nearby regions (Egypt, Babylonia, Greece, Africa, Persia, India, etc.) had been producing booze for thousands of years before that, and there was plenty of trade going through Arabia no? And the Caliphates were at the forefront of distillation technology within 100 years of Mohammed's death.

And isn't Mohammed supposed to have spoken specifically about wine and alcohol?
 
S.A.M. said:
Well Mohammed was just a lowly merchant for much of his life. It was only after he was 40 that he became involved with religion. People tend to forget the first 40 years of his life because all he is known for is the next 23 years.
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Of course Mohammad was 40 years old. A nice round number with a lot hellava of lot of Biblical significance.

Forty Years of Probation by Trial
- Israel in the wilderness, Deuteronomy 8:2-5; Psalm 95:10; Acts 13:18
- A the third of Moses' life, 120 years is 40.
- Israel from the crucifixion to the destruction of Jerusalem.

Forty Years of Probation by Prosperity in Deliverance and Rest
- under Othniel, Judges 3:11,
- under Barak, Judges 5:31,
- under Gideon, Judges 8:28.

Forty Years of Probation by Prosperity in Enlarged Dominion
- under David, 2Samuel 5:4,
- under Solomon, 1 Kings 11:42,
- under Jeroboam II. See 2 Kings 12:17,18, 13:3,5,7,22,25, 14:12-14,23,28,
- under Jehoash, 2 Kings 12:1,
- under Joash, 2Chronicles 24:1.

Forty Years of Probation by Humiliation and Servitude
- Israel under the Philistines, Judges 13:1.
- Israel in the time of Eli, 1Samuel 4:18.
- Israel under Saul, Acts 13:21.

Forty Years of Probation by Waiting
- Moses in Egypt, Acts 7:23.
- Moses in Midian, Acts 7:30

Forty Days
There are eight of such great periods on the surface of the Bible:

- Forty days Moses was in the mount, Exodus 24:18; and to receive the Law, Exodus 24:18.
- Forty days Moses was in the mount after the sin of the Golden Calf, Deuteronomy 9:18,25.
- Forty days of the spies, issuing in the penal sentence of the 40 years, Numbers 13:26, 14:34.
- Forty days of Elijah in Horeb, 1 Kings 19:8.
- Forty days of Jonah and Nineveh, Jonah 3:4.
- Forty days Ezekiel lay on his right side to symbolize the 40 years of Judah's transgression.*
- Forty days Jesus was tempted of the Devil, Matthew 4:2.
- Forty days Jesus was seen of His disciples, speaking of things pertaining to God's kingdom, Acts 1:2.



Can't really have any old number when you're making it up. It's gotta mean something. Yup, 40 years old, not all that surpizing. Ever see that movie The 40 year old virgin? Hilarius. Not all that old when you come to think about it :) I mean heck, Sarah was 91 years old when she bore her son, Isaac, - if you can believe it :p
 
quadraphonics said:
At the time of the Prophet? I'd find it difficult to believe there wasn't, offhand. All of the nearby regions (Egypt, Babylonia, Greece, Africa, Persia, India, etc.) had been producing booze for thousands of years before that, and there was plenty of trade going through Arabia no? And the Caliphates were at the forefront of distillation technology within 100 years of Mohammed's death.

And isn't Mohammed supposed to have spoken specifically about wine and alcohol?
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The word for wine in Arabic qahwa is also the word for coffee. Generally the word used in the Qur'an is intoxicant. People don't usually recall that there was no "alcohol" as such when the Qur'an was revealed it was distilled by Persian alchemists much later. Not surprisingly most Hadiths about alcohol were collected after the distillation of alcohol and the establishment of drinking places in the new empire, when poets like Omar Khayyam wrote stuff like this:

Ah, my Beloved, fill the Cup that clears
To-day of past Regrets and future Fears --
To-morrow? -- Why, To-morrow I may be
Myself with Yesterday's Sev'n Thousand Years.
 
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Woman, desist! He was talking about wine, not distilled alcohol. And he certainly wasn't talking about coffee.

And David's lips are lockt; but in divine High - piping Pehlevi, with "Wine! Wine! Wine! Red Wine!" - the Nightingale cries to the Rose That sallow cheek of hers to incarnadine

And I bet you have a drop of that yourself from time to time;)
 
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Waste not your Hour, nor in the vain pursuit Of This and That endeavour and dispute; Better be merry with the fruitful Grape Than sadden after none, or bitter, Fruit.

Mmmmh.......
 
SAM said:
Was there wine in Arabia? I don't know,
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Why in hell would you "doubt that Muhammed ever drank wine"? Where would you get the idea that there was no alcohol around in Muhammed's day?

It's quite likely that he not only drank wine, but ate pork in his travels. That he not only married several women, but that one of his later wives was a girl about 12 and he had sex with her.

You don't like eating pork - pork somehow becomes nutritionally worse than other meats. You don't like alcohol, somehow wine and beer vanish from the landscape of your admired people. C'mon.

SAM said:
I do know that while taverns were the norm in Europe, it was coffee houses that became the norm in Arab lands. Was it because of Islam or inspite of it, I don't know, I haven't looked at that history very closely.
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Coffee houses spread fast in Europe as soon as introduced, becoming so much identified with European culture (and a norm that has lasted for hundreds of years now) that Islamic Turkey banned coffee for a while.

Tobacco smoking, chocolate drinking, were first found among Mexican civilizations; opium cultivation and coffee drinking among North African/Arabian civilizations; Tea drinking in southern China; Coca chewing among Andes mountain civilizations; this is not a mystery requiring exploration of cultural depths.

Alcohol is one the universals of human civilization - all known humans who ever lived in towns drank some kind of alcohol.
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
Thanks!

I have a Muslim friend who thinks that all wine is evil.

I do not agree and I was just looking for correct information on the topic.
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*************
M*W: I went to a party where there were a bunch of Muslim physicians. I tell you what, they all drank plenty of alcohol, and one of the wives got shit-faced drunk and came on to me!
 
As you need two male witnesses to a crime, and no males are allowed in a harem, lesbianism is not a big thing in Islam.
I'm sure that Shadow must be reading this thread.
Shadow, do you allow female congress in your harem, or must they wait for service by yourself?
 
Do you allow the women in your harem to be lesbians?
Or do you shout at them and say "Women. No messing about. You must wait for Shadow"
 
What is the difference between two of Shadow's harem pleasuring each other and one of them being 'pleasured' by Shadow?

.................................. about an hour and a half.
 
Bad Spud!
It's that school you went to.
Sister Monica's College for Wayward Children and Parentless Aborigines

Aborigines: But, Sister Monica, we have got Par........
Sister Monica: Shut up, you little devils!
 
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Salam. I found a proper refutation to the Musnad Ahmad argument & others here:
islamic-replies.ucoz.com/Rebut_WikiIslam_Drank_Wine_Ablution.html
 
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