Did Jesus ever claim to be the messiah?
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I don't think he did. If he had claimed to be the Messiah, then Pilate would have put a sign on the cross that said, "Jesus of Nazareth, Savior of the Jews."
You know I think I answered my own Question.
John4:25-26 v.25 The woman said,"I know that the Messiah"(called Christ)"is coming.When he comes,he will explain everything to us."
v.26 Then Jesus declared,"I who speak to you am he."
Well I look that up after I asked my Question and I think that answers it. This is part of a passage of Jesus speaks to a samartain woman. Found in John 4
John4:25-26 v.25 The woman said,"I know that the Messiah"(called Christ)"is coming.When he comes,he will explain everything to us."
v.26 Then Jesus declared,"I who speak to you am he."
Well I look that up after I asked my Question and I think that answers it. This is part of a passage of Jesus speaks to a samartain woman. Found in John 4
There's absolutely no question about the answer here.
Jesus never claimed to be the Messiah.
The passage you quoted was written at least 20 years after Jesus died, by people who never heard Jesus speak, and they wanted to make it look like he claimed to satisfy Jewish prophecy.
But the real Jesus knew better.
The real Jesus knew that, in order to satisfy the prophecies about the Messiah, you had to throw out the Romans and proclaim yourself King of Israel.
The Romans taught him a very hard lesson, that he didn't have the stuff it took to declare himself a King.
Jesus never claimed to be the Messiah.
The passage you quoted was written at least 20 years after Jesus died, by people who never heard Jesus speak, and they wanted to make it look like he claimed to satisfy Jewish prophecy.
But the real Jesus knew better.
The real Jesus knew that, in order to satisfy the prophecies about the Messiah, you had to throw out the Romans and proclaim yourself King of Israel.
The Romans taught him a very hard lesson, that he didn't have the stuff it took to declare himself a King.
Matther 16:16-17
Simon Peter answered "you are the Christ, the son of the living God." Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not reveiled to you by man, but by my father in heaven.
There are also many times (I can look them up if you want) where demons in people called him the son of God. He told them to be quiet. For some reason he didn't want the people of that time knowing he was the son of God. Probably because he would have been killed sooner. Good question.
In Christ's love,
Mystee
Simon Peter answered "you are the Christ, the son of the living God." Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not reveiled to you by man, but by my father in heaven.
There are also many times (I can look them up if you want) where demons in people called him the son of God. He told them to be quiet. For some reason he didn't want the people of that time knowing he was the son of God. Probably because he would have been killed sooner. Good question.
In Christ's love,
Mystee
The real Jesus knew that, in order to satisfy the prophecies about the Messiah, you had to throw out the Romans and proclaim yourself King of Israel.
That wasn't what he meant by "Messiah". By Messiah he meant that he was the savior from Hell and eternal damnation, not from worldly powers like the Romans. His mission for his first coming was that," the world through him might be saved." His next coming will be to RULE during the thousand year reign.
That wasn't what he meant by "Messiah". By Messiah he meant that he was the savior from Hell and eternal damnation, not from worldly powers like the Romans. His mission for his first coming was that," the world through him might be saved." His next coming will be to RULE during the thousand year reign.
First, welcome to sciforums, jcarl!
Secondly, what do you mean by the "real Jesus?" The actual existence of Jesus is questionable. However, I for one believed he did exist. When you say "satify the prophecies about the Messiah," you must be aware that the Gospels were written aboug 100 years after Jesus' "disappearance." So, "satisfying the prophecies' could only be accomplished by the writers of the Gospels (or other texts).
Thirdly, Jesus, if he lived, never considered himself a "King" of anything. The Romans mocked him by putting the plackard on the cross that said, "INRI," or "Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews." The reason they mocked him with that plackard is that WAS NOT Jesus hanging on the cross, it was actually Barabbas, which coincidentally means, "Son of the Father." The plackard was put on the cross for the people's reference, not the man hanging on the cross! The crucifixion would have a more serious meaning if a "king" was being crucified. Someone else died on that cross. The people wanted "Barabbas" to be set free. The "Son of the Father" was set free. But the whole crucifixion is now believed to be a mock event if anything. Historic documents and Jewish Law negate anything and everything written in the Gospels. Again, they were written long, long after Jesus was out of the picture.
Fourthly, the lesson Jesus was alleged to have given about the "kingdom" was not a worldly kingdom but a spiritual one. The kingdom of God lives within each of us. Therefore, we are One with God. The human race contains the spirit of God. The human race is the face of God on Earth. So look in the least likely place you would to find God. God is within you and, because of that, there is no need for salvation.
Fourthly, the lesson Jesus was alleged to have given about the "kingdom" was not a worldly kingdom but a spiritual one. The kingdom of God lives within each of us. Therefore, we are One with God. The human race contains the spirit of God. The human race is the face of God on Earth. So look in the least likely place you would to find God. God is within you and, because of that, there is no need for salvation. [/B][/QUOTE]
The least likely place within me to find God? What about that part of me that goes to porn sites or drinks or kills. I would think that that would be the least likely place to find God. this everything is God/ God is everything idea is flawed because of that. God does live inside those who believe, but that IS the salvation.
Oh yeh. The part about the historical records negating the gospel. Matthew 28 11-15,"Now while they were going, behold, some of the guard came into the city and reported to the chief priests all the thing that had happened. When they assembled with the elders and consulted together, they gave them large sums of money saying, 'Tell them, his disciples came at night a stole him away while we slept.....So they took the money and did as they were instructed; and this saying is commonly reported... even to this day."
If they would lie about the dissapearance of the body, then what would put them above forging some other documents?
The least likely place within me to find God? What about that part of me that goes to porn sites or drinks or kills. I would think that that would be the least likely place to find God. this everything is God/ God is everything idea is flawed because of that. God does live inside those who believe, but that IS the salvation.
Oh yeh. The part about the historical records negating the gospel. Matthew 28 11-15,"Now while they were going, behold, some of the guard came into the city and reported to the chief priests all the thing that had happened. When they assembled with the elders and consulted together, they gave them large sums of money saying, 'Tell them, his disciples came at night a stole him away while we slept.....So they took the money and did as they were instructed; and this saying is commonly reported... even to this day."
If they would lie about the dissapearance of the body, then what would put them above forging some other documents?
Why would they forge the Bible?
Absolutely nothing. Basically, Saul/Paul set out to create a savior so he could sell amulets that promised to heal the sick and raise the dead. Saul/Paul was a shrewd businessman. He has also written under the name of Josephus. Now this guy DID have MPD!
Absolutely nothing. Basically, Saul/Paul set out to create a savior so he could sell amulets that promised to heal the sick and raise the dead. Saul/Paul was a shrewd businessman. He has also written under the name of Josephus. Now this guy DID have MPD!
what are you talking about? The people I'm talking about are the Jewish leaders who had persuaded the crowd to release Barabas and to crucify Jesus.
Show me some evidence pertaining to that stuff on Paul.
Even if they did forge the bible (which they didn't) they wouldn't have done it for the power(Paul spent a good amount of time in prison b/c of his letters)or the money (he would send the letters to the churches not for publication-that came later). You people are ludicrous if you believe what you're saying.
Show me some evidence pertaining to that stuff on Paul.
Even if they did forge the bible (which they didn't) they wouldn't have done it for the power(Paul spent a good amount of time in prison b/c of his letters)or the money (he would send the letters to the churches not for publication-that came later). You people are ludicrous if you believe what you're saying.
Believe what you're saying?
Do you believe what YOU'RE saying?
Do you believe what YOU'RE saying?
ConsequentAtheist
Registered Senior Member
Re: Why would they forge the Bible?
Your evidence?
Re: Why would they forge the Bible?
Absolutely nothing. Basically, Saul/Paul set out to create a savior so he could sell amulets that promised to heal the sick and raise the dead. Saul/Paul was a shrewd businessman.
Where did you get this from,Paul never endorsed physical things to heal the sick.As Paul's actual trade he made tents
Absolutely nothing. Basically, Saul/Paul set out to create a savior so he could sell amulets that promised to heal the sick and raise the dead. Saul/Paul was a shrewd businessman.
Where did you get this from,Paul never endorsed physical things to heal the sick.As Paul's actual trade he made tents
ConsequentAtheist
Registered Senior Member
Re: Re: Why would they forge the Bible?
Medicine*Woman has a unique viewpoint befriended by neither reason nor sanity. It is best to think of her blathering as an incessant background noise, as worthless as it is irritating.
Crucifixion
I should have included the sources to back up my comment. Here is the list of references that indicate Jesus was not crucified:
Bloodline of the Holy Grail by Sir Laurence Gardner
Genesis of the Grail Kings by Sir Laurence Gardner
The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold by Acharya S
Holy Blood, Holy Grail by Baigent & Leigh
The Second Messiah by Baigent & Leigh
The Passover Plot by _________________
The Key to the Sacred Pattern by Henry Lincoln
Realm of the Ring Lords by Sir Laurence Gardner
The Hiram Key by Christopher Knight & Richard Lomas
Rex Deus by Marilyn Hopkins, et al.
Children of the Matrix by David Icke
The Myth of Christianity by _____________
The Gospel of Mary Magdalene by
The Genealogy of Jesus by Sir Laurence Gardner
I have more, but I cannot locate the books at this time.
The Tomb of God by R. Andrews, et al.
Genisis by David Woods & Ian Campbell
Geneset: Target Earth by David Woods & Ian Campbell
Jesus, the Last Pharoah of Egypt by Ralph Ellis
Magi by A. Gilbert
The Quran
I should have included the sources to back up my comment. Here is the list of references that indicate Jesus was not crucified:
Bloodline of the Holy Grail by Sir Laurence Gardner
Genesis of the Grail Kings by Sir Laurence Gardner
The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold by Acharya S
Holy Blood, Holy Grail by Baigent & Leigh
The Second Messiah by Baigent & Leigh
The Passover Plot by _________________
The Key to the Sacred Pattern by Henry Lincoln
Realm of the Ring Lords by Sir Laurence Gardner
The Hiram Key by Christopher Knight & Richard Lomas
Rex Deus by Marilyn Hopkins, et al.
Children of the Matrix by David Icke
The Myth of Christianity by _____________
The Gospel of Mary Magdalene by
The Genealogy of Jesus by Sir Laurence Gardner
I have more, but I cannot locate the books at this time.
The Tomb of God by R. Andrews, et al.
Genisis by David Woods & Ian Campbell
Geneset: Target Earth by David Woods & Ian Campbell
Jesus, the Last Pharoah of Egypt by Ralph Ellis
Magi by A. Gilbert
The Quran
ConsequentAtheist
Registered Senior Member
Re: Crucifixion
What a sad and perverted joke you are ...