Did god make hell?
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Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
The most God had to do with Hell was that He roped off the territory. Hell, as far as God is concerned, is simply a dumping ground for Souls that did not want anything to do with God. So they get their wish.
Now, Hell would be a wonderful place of goodness and light, except for the nasty disposition of its inhabitants. Foremost is Satan. Remember that God did not put Satan in charge of Hell. Satan was able to establish himself into that position. And Satan maintains himself in that role by intimidating and supressing all other Souls who would otherwise vie for command. I would suppose that most of the torture and misery in Hell involves Satan's efforts to maintain his rule, and to maintain order with a crowd of people who are so naturally individualistic and rebellious.
Now, Hell would be a wonderful place of goodness and light, except for the nasty disposition of its inhabitants. Foremost is Satan. Remember that God did not put Satan in charge of Hell. Satan was able to establish himself into that position. And Satan maintains himself in that role by intimidating and supressing all other Souls who would otherwise vie for command. I would suppose that most of the torture and misery in Hell involves Satan's efforts to maintain his rule, and to maintain order with a crowd of people who are so naturally individualistic and rebellious.
interesting, rebellious/ambitious individuals go to hell. let that be a warning. 
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
antifreeze said:interesting, rebellious/ambitious individuals go to hell. let that be a warning.
Heaven is for the Community Minded -- social souls given to love and charity -- people who enjoy being with other people as one big family.
But there are people who chaff on society. They see society as something to exploit. They are the wolves that treat everyone else as sheep to be eaten or shorn.
People who show each other love and charity go to Heaven. Those who treat their fellow souls as targets and game, they go where they can treat other souls as targets and game, and be treated that way in turn.
Hell isn't all bad. Satan, who has managed to fight his way to the top of the mountain probably enjoys his victory. If everyone else suffers, well, that is what they measured out, or would measure out if they were the ones in power... so they really don't have room to complain, do they?
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
path said:
Fine! If you don't like other people, then you get to go to the place where nobody likes you either. You want to be individualistic -- you can go to that place where everyone disagrees with what you are doing and you, same as now, insist that your way must be best. I hope it is skads of fun there.
davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
Leo:
Where have you got this information regarding heaven and hell from?
Dave
Where have you got this information regarding heaven and hell from?
Dave
What is signified as Hell in holy scriptures is nowhere other than the 'Sun' where the world will finally fall and melt away.
However, the sun is a "hell" in terms of its subatomic dimension!
The same way as we have a "frequency parallel double" body, at the subatomic level associated with our physical body at the level of our everyday life, the SUN has also a replica, a "parallel double in frequencies" at the subatomic level; that such a dimension stands for its characteristic of becoming a "HELL."
For this very reason, we cannot determine the Hell-fire through our normal sensory means in our everyday lives, the same way as we cannot perceive the human spirits, angels and jinni, that are all life forms of frequency of subatomic dimension.
However, the sun is a "hell" in terms of its subatomic dimension!
The same way as we have a "frequency parallel double" body, at the subatomic level associated with our physical body at the level of our everyday life, the SUN has also a replica, a "parallel double in frequencies" at the subatomic level; that such a dimension stands for its characteristic of becoming a "HELL."
For this very reason, we cannot determine the Hell-fire through our normal sensory means in our everyday lives, the same way as we cannot perceive the human spirits, angels and jinni, that are all life forms of frequency of subatomic dimension.
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Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
davewhite04 said:
The best info I have on Heaven is searchable on line -- Phil Kramer "My Brief Experience in Eternity and What I Saw" :
http://www.aculink.net/~catholic/africa.htm
He tells an interesting story.
The ideas I have just been spouting reflect the theology of Salvation and Damnation by Moral Criteria and strict application of the Golden Rule... or the Inverse Golden Rule of "if you thought it was good enough to everyone else, now it will be good enough for you".
But if I were to chose whether to believe myself, or believe Phil Kramer, I would go with Phil Kramer. Read it.
Leo Volont said:
Whoa there Leo your anger is showing.
BTW did I mention that I have worked with children for the red cross, am now acting as a refugee guide for an Iraqi family, and live in a rather communal home?I am glad you hope hell is fun for me thank you for your kindness
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
path said:Whoa there Leo your anger is showing.
I am glad you hope hell is fun for me thank you for your kindness
What anger? I'm not angry. I am just pointing out to you that the distance you put up between yourself and your society will be maintained in the afterlife. You love freedom and individuality, ie. hate society, then you will be exiled to a place where you can be as free and individualistic as you like --and where you will get the same treatment from others.
And it is sweet that you do so much good works. I guess you must eventually make a choice. Are you social. Or are you out to separate yourself. You seem to be split. Most people are.
Out of Millions of Religious People often there is not more than one Saint. Strictly interpreted, this would indicate that only one Soul out of Millions will go to Heaven, while all the rest fall short.
Catholicism knows of Purgatory. People like you go to Purgatory where your residual pride and obnoxiousness is burned out of you by the Light of God, which feels a lot more like Heat in that application.
Hell is reserved only for those who are totally selfish -- registered Republicans.
Leo Volont said:
I feel your understanding of freedom and individuality is somewhat skewed, where do you get this "freedom and individuality= hate society" notion from? Did I also understand you properly in another thread that you believe democracy is also evil?
path said:
Hell is a invention of humans. I believe that we humans live either in Hell or Heaven right here on Earth. Some humans have nothing and live in total poverty trying just to survive day to day while others live in 50 room mansions with servants and 6 cars with money to burn.
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
path said:
they are political code words. 'Freedom' means freedom to exploit. 'Individuality' means anarchy and outlawism. Both impulses are expressions of selfishness.
The Selfish Person will sacrifice society to save himself. The Selfish Person will have society suffer for his own convenience. Yes, you want to be free of the suffering you would impose on others. Yes, as an individual you can escape from the exploitation you impose on the collective.
You are not alone. 99% of Christians say they would nail Jesus to the Cross so they can have a personal salvation. So selfishness has been effectively endorced by Institutionalized Christianity. That does not make it write though. I think it is a test from God. If you would crucify Christ to Save yourself, then you are the one who gets nailed up.
You get whatever you want to stick everyone else with. You want to have fun and let Society pay the bill while you enjoy your freedom and individuality -- justice demands that you pay in the end.
hell sounds like moscow.
there ain't no heaven, and there ain't no hell, except the one we're in and you know too well.(UB40 1982)
still so true today.
still so true today.
Laser Eyes
Registered Senior Member
The first question you ask is curious. Is hell a place or a state of mind? If hell is a state of mind then is it really apposite to call it hell? Isn't a state of mind just that, a state of mind and nothing more. How can a state of mind be hell?path said:
To answer your question there is no such thing as hell. Hell is not a place, it is not a state of mind, it hasn't been created by God or satan or anyone else, it simply does not exist. Hell is a concept created by the empire of Christendom to control people through fear.
Freedom: 1. The condition of being free of restraints. 2. Liberty of the person from slavery, detention, or oppression. a. Political independence. b. Exemption from the arbitrary exercise of authority in the performance of a specific action; civil liberty: freedom of assembly.
Individuality: 1. The aggregate of qualities and characteristics that distinguish one person or thing from others; character: choices that were intended to express his individuality; monotonous towns lacking in individuality. 2. An individual or distinguishing feature.
Leo, It seems that your ideas of freedom and individuality are a bit skewed. Where did you get those definitions?
Individuality: 1. The aggregate of qualities and characteristics that distinguish one person or thing from others; character: choices that were intended to express his individuality; monotonous towns lacking in individuality. 2. An individual or distinguishing feature.
Leo, It seems that your ideas of freedom and individuality are a bit skewed. Where did you get those definitions?
God did not make hell. People made hell. There simply is not a better way to keep people in check. As long as you keep people scared of eternity, then you have them in the palm of you hand. They have to come to you to repent, and make the situation better, which is the only way to aviod an eternity of damnation, and all you have to do is tell them that it will all be ok.