When you speak of the first moment of creation that could be equated with god, which creation are you speaking of? Creation of the universe? I think that is quite feasable that we may someday understand the creation of this universe.In the future, we may have knowledge of other universes the way we have knowledge of other galaxies right now. If it turns out that we discover some super universe which our universe and others reside in, then will god be equated with the creation of that superuniverse? And when we discover how that one was formed.......and so on...
I'm referring to the first moment of creation which made everything as it is. Take the Big Bang for example, that's a first moment of creation, but implies we're the first and only universe. Now the question in regards to the Big Bang is, who or what was the Big Bang? We know what happened when it exploded, but what was it when everything was condensed into that one moment? What was that cosmic firecracker, was that God? And when everything exploded to become atoms and everything to intereact with one another to create all that we see here, why do they interact the way they do? Who or what wrote those laws of nature to say that this atom will do this with that atom to create this and that? Those are questions to the origins of creation, the very begining.
And yes, if we find more universes, I will continue to ask that question because another universe does not answer my question, it only makes it harder for you to answer my question. I doubt this is the only universe, I can almost guarantee it although you guys don't like "faith" as a guarantee, heh. I believe everything to be a spherical, relative, infinity. We have tiny atoms, which are spherical, we have atoms smaller and bigger than that, which are spherical. We have planets which are spherical, which I believe to be in a sense a bigger atom, and I'm sure once we discover our whole universe, it will be spherical as well trapped inside another much bigger spherical universe just as the atom is trapped in the Earth and the Earth is trapped in our universe. I bet in regards to size and scale, our universe is as big as an atom is to Earth, as the Earth is to our universe. And the same will apply to our universe compared to the other universe it's in. Atoms are atoms that make up planets and planets are atoms which make up universes. It's all on relative quantum and [whatever the opposite word for quantum is] scales.
We can find billions upon billions of other universes but that won't tell us anything about how everything came together and was first created. All a super infinite universe will show is that indeed, everything is an infinity, but still, how did things become that way and who and what decided to make it like that, we'll never know. And who and what wrote the laws of nature as they are to make everything create non-stop into infinity? That's why I say there's some sort of originating, jump-starting creator -- God, for lack of a better word. Science doesn't give us answers, it merely gives us more questions. And when we do get answers, it's towards things that have nothing to do with our question. And people wonder why other's have faith? At least discover something that at least remotely comes close to answering our question.
If I ask about creation and later in the future someone says our universe was created by another universe and we're part of an infinite super universe, that's not answering the question as to the origins of all creation, it's just helping make that question go on forever. That infinite question is the question scientists have, not those with faith. Those with faith say there was a begining which sparked off the infinite. But when we say that, the non-believers then ask "So if God started creation, who created God" which would then be "If so-and-so created God, then who created that person/thing", ad nauseum. Those with faith don't have to know what it is or was, we just have faith that there was something that sparked it all off. It's the scientists that HAVE to know. Too bad they hate philosophy so much.
Knowledge such as knowing about infinite universes is actually making it harder to answer the question, not easier. Those scientists seeking the infinite become an insect trapped in a spider's web. They continue seeking, fighting, and struggling which only tangles them up even more in the web of knowledge, and that's when death finally comes around and makes its move.
If you continue to chase those never-ending infinite universes, you'll never get your answer but those with faith had their answer before that second universe was ever discovered. Those with faith were able to answer their own question because it was in much simpler, less blinded, terms whereas the seeking scientists are making it harder on themselves. Scientists complain about having to sift through all the garbage to make sense of it all, but heh, by gaining more knowledge itself, that's adding to that garbage especially if it deals with infinity. If the answer to the origins of all creation is God, it is in simple terms to one with faith such as 10^10 whereas for the scientist is winds up being 10x10x10x10x10x10x10x10x10x10, except it goes on for infinity. One with faith says that there was a begining, simple as that, but that scientist foolishly thinks he can chase infinity. I bet after finding fifty universes within universes, scientists will still be stubborn and won't admit to saying that the universe is infinite. That next universe is like a carrot on a stick to them.
It's quite amusing, yet sad, because scientists thrive off knowledge, but what happens when they will never know everything? They become trapped in their own little infinite seeking Hell. Ahh, so that's what a lost soul must be. I at least know when I've met my match.
My point here is that there is really no reason, other than pure faith, to equate a god with anything.
Yes, there is. The biggest reason is when it comes to the past. And, heh, asking about the origins of all creation is the number one, most hardests question there is. It is absolutely the oldest moment in time. If it's impossible to figure out completely what went on a million years ago, do you honestly think we'll ever even remotely come close to figuring out what happened the exact first moment of creation? Lol, you're putting waaaaaay too much "faith" in science.
Science will have figured out a way to grant immortality to everyone, the ability to teleport, to explore every known planet in all the universe, to have conquered all and become Gods ourselves, before we ever have the answer to the origins of all creation.
Science only gives an understanding of how things work. When it comes to the past, it's still 90% assumption, 10% evidence. And most of the evidence mainly has to deal with the final outcome of the event, not how the event went down or what came before it.
Even assuming the Big Bang is what caused all of creation, and we have super duper ungodly good telescopes which could look back so far into the universe to see that exact moment (pretending this is all possible), all we would see is an explosion and that would still leave us with the main question. We would see the action and the outcome, but not what happened before. It would be like trying to unpuzzle an archaelogical dig. We see a bunch of bones, weapons, dead bodies, and all that. One could say a war happened and we could guess that one side won since the other side had the most casualties. Assuming all that was correct, we still wouldn't know why it happened. We have the event, the war, and the outcome, one side winning, but nothing to know what went on before that event. Just like with the Big Bang, we have the event, the explosion, and the outcome, life as we see it, but not the details before then as to why it happened. There's just some things we will never know. You seem to think we'll be able to eventually figure everything out, but we won't in regards to the past. So, well, have some faith.
- N
P.S. Sorry, ugh, that was way too long.
