Denial of Evolution VII (2015)

[leopold]

Here's the quote leopold relies on as "disproof" of evolution. This is from an article published in Science back in 1980, titled "Evolutionary theory under fire".

see p14 post 269, p15 post 283.
i am not trying to "disprove" anything.
i stated "i was lied to" when i was taught evolution.
and i was.

the matter of the ayala quote surfaced when i posted what i found.
it should also be pointed out that quite a few of my posts on this matter has been moved to other threads, some of which i did not create.

it should also be pointed out that one of my posts has been edited by persons unknown.

now, do you want to get spooky?

 

[Bells]

Sure.

I believe evolution explains quite elegantly the diversity of life on Earth. I also believe evolution can speed up dramatically. I cannot explain with any level of certainty the origin of man to be honest.

I believe the Earth is at least 3.2billion years old, which is not what creationist believe, is it(genuine question)?

The earth is around 4.5 billion years old.

There are indicators that life first appeared as much as 3.5 billion years ago.

Science doesn't sign a document and close a book, mass produce it and close the case on any scientific theory... there isn't, and never will be a scientific fact.

It appears that you believe differently to what has been discovered. Please support your case and show where our brain stem actually came from. It shouldn't be hard, seeing how vehemently you are protesting this.

If you do not understand what is meant by sharing a common ancestor with another life form, in this case, certain types of worms, and how that relates to our evolution, then please ask. But I think I have provided you with more than enough links to explain it to you in detail. So what do you not believe about it?

Do you think your brain magically appeared?

That's an answer? I don't feel embarrassed for people like you, I feel nothing.

I would be surprised if you did. Seeing as we are complete strangers.

 

[davewhite04]

It appears that you believe differently to what has been discovered. Please support your case and show where our brain stem actually came from. It shouldn't be hard, seeing how vehemently you are protesting this.

I don't know, but the coolest part is, neither do you but least I'm not arrogant enough to pretend I have all the answers.

If you do not understand what is meant by sharing a common ancestor with another life form, in this case, certain types of worms, and how that relates to our evolution, then please ask. But I think I have provided you with more than enough links to explain it to you in detail. So what do you not believe about it?

I don't believe DNA can be created in a pool of goo. Can you prove it can?

Do you think your brain magically appeared?

No, it is the result of my mother and dad.

 

[Bells]

I don't know, but the coolest part is, neither do you but least I'm not arrogant enough to pretend I have all the answers.

You have dismissed evolutionary theory and discoveries, so in a way, you are arrogant enough to pretend to have all the answers. For example:

I don't believe DNA can be created in a pool of goo. Can you prove it can?

I provide you with information about the formation of the nervous system from millions of years ago and your response is you don't believe DNA can be created in a pool of goo [<< Descriptive and animated explanation of Thomas Cech and Sidney Altman's discovery which should provide you with the answer to your question]..

Where and how do you think life began on this planet?

I am going to assume, by your apparent revulsion and denial of how life began on this planet, that you believe something else? Why is it such a big deal to you that you can make such statements in response to evidence showing that we shared a common ancestor with certain types of worms hundreds of millions of years ago? Do you believe that man is too superior to have had such beginnings? How and where do you believe the brain evolved from?

No, it is the result of my mother and dad.

*Sigh*...

 

[davewhite04]

You have dismissed evolutionary theory and discoveries, so in a way, you are arrogant enough to pretend to have all the answers. For example:.....

Which I don't know the answer to...

I provide you with information about the formation of the nervous system from millions of years ago and your response is you don't believe DNA can be created in a pool of goo [<< Descriptive and animated explanation of Thomas Cech and Sidney Altman's discovery which should provide you with the answer to your question]..

I chose not to believe that DNA can be caused by chance in a pool of goo, no one in science knows the answer, and the current thoughts are way off gaining scientific theory status.

Where and how do you think life began on this planet?

I have my own ideas, and you'd be the last person I'd discuss them with.

I am going to assume, by your apparent revulsion and denial of how life began on this planet, that you believe something else? Why is it such a big deal to you that you can make such statements in response to evidence showing that we shared a common ancestor with certain types of worms hundreds of millions of years ago? Do you believe that man is too superior to have had such beginnings? How and where do you believe the brain evolved from?

The only thing I know is that my brain evolved from my parents.

 

[Bells]

Which I don't know the answer to...

You don't know the answer and you dismiss the answer because you do not believe in the answer..

I chose not to believe that DNA can be caused by chance in a pool of goo, no one in science knows the answer, and the current thoughts are way off gaining scientific theory status.

Well, people in science do know and have published what they know. For example, we know parts of our brain share similarities with other animals, including worms, which means we all shared a common ancestor from a few hundred million years ago. This is what we know. And it is an astounding discovery. Why are you so offended by this?

Why do you choose not to believe that DNA can be caused by chance in what you are calling a pool of goo? Let me guess, you are of the 'god did it' crowd?

I have my own ideas, and you'd be the last person I'd discuss them with.

Yes. You are probably better off saving it for your bible studies group.

The only thing I know is that my brain evolved from my parents.

Umm no. Your brain did not evolve from your parents.

 

[davewhite04]

Well, people in science do know and have published what they know. For example, we know parts of our brain share similarities with other animals, including worms, which means we all shared a common ancestor from a few hundred million years ago. This is what we know. And it is an astounding discovery. Why are you so offended by this?

I'm not offended, I'm amused. I do believe that you share a common ancestry with worms, no doubt about it.

Why do you choose not to believe that DNA can be caused by chance in what you are calling a pool of goo? Let me guess, you are of the 'god did it' crowd?

I'm asking you the question, which you obviously can't answer so you ask me the question that I'd already admitted I didn't know the answer to. When was the last time you admitted you didn't know something?

Yes. You are probably better off saving it for your bible studies group.

I'd get more sense from a Bible study class.

Umm no. Your brain did not evolve from your parents.

Really... answer ONE question for once... if my brain isn't a product of my parents, which is different to both of them, what do you call the process that changed my brain? or arm? or leg?

 

[Bells]

I'm not offended, I'm amused. I do believe that you share a common ancestry with worms, no doubt about it.

Well yes. I am human.

I'm asking you the question, which you obviously can't answer so you ask me the question that I'd already admitted I didn't know the answer to. When was the last time you admitted you didn't know something?

I don't know.

I'd get more sense from a Bible study class.

I am sure you feel that way.

Really... answer ONE question for once... if my brain isn't a product of my parents,

Your brain is a product of millions of years of evolution. Certainly, your parents having sex and conceiving you helped you be here, but the process that resulted in your brain is something that is the result of millions of years of evolution.

which is different to both of them,

How is your brain different? Does it look different? Is it made of something else? Certainly, your memories, experiences, emotions, will be different, in that sense, your brain is different. But your brain is structurally the same.

what do you call the process that changed my brain?

Lobotomy.. Brain injury.. Drugs and alcohol.. Disease..?

or arm? or leg?

Amputation.. Plastic Surgery.. Exercise..?

 

[davewhite04]

Certainly, your parents having sex and conceiving you helped you be here, but the process that resulted in your brain is something that is the result of millions of years of evolution.

Are you for real? I wouldn't exist without them. Evolution is happening constantly. Are you sure your not a bible thumper?

How is your brain different? Does it look different? Is it made of something else? Certainly, your memories, experiences, emotions, will be different, in that sense, your brain is different. But your brain is structurally the same.

Because my brain is more adaptable to technology for example. It processes information differently then theirs. The list is huge, but no matter what I say you come back with more offensive lies. Like this...

Lobotomy.. Brain injury.. Drugs and alcohol.. Disease..?

and

Amputation.. Plastic Surgery.. Exercise..?

 

[Dywyddyr]

Because my brain is more adaptable to technology for example.

Nonsense.

It processes information differently then theirs.

Not really.

 

[Seattle]

It's called "reproduction" and not "evolution"

 

[davewhite04]

It's called "reproduction" and not "evolution"

Reproduction goes hand in hand with evolution, you can't have one without the other.

 

[Seattle]

Reproduction goes hand in hand with evolution, you can't have one without the other.

Reproduction is what explains the differences between you and your parents.

 

[Bells]

Are you for real? I wouldn't exist without them. Evolution is happening constantly. Are you sure your not a bible thumper?

I will use smaller words.

Your parents reproduced and had you. However the processes that resulted in how you came to be, is a product of evolution.

You did not evolve from your parents.

Just like your brain did not evolve from your parents. You are a product of reproduction. But the process that allowed you to be reproduced by your parents, that allowed your brain and organs to develop as they did is itself a product of evolution.

Because my brain is more adaptable to technology for example.

Ummm no. We live in a time that is more technologically advanced, so your experiences allow for you to be more used to using technology. But it does not mean that you are more adaptable to technology. If you took someone from 100 years ago and gave them the same upbringing with access to the same technology that you have had access to for your whole life, they would be just as good at using it as you are.

It processes information differently then theirs.

Umm no. It doesn't.

The list is huge, but no matter what I say you come back with more offensive lies. Like this...

and

Unless you are claiming that you are different to everyone else, ie, a new species, your comments aren't really making a lot of sense.

 

[davewhite04]

Reproduction is what explains the differences between you and your parents.

Indeed.

Do you think evolution has stopped as far as we humans go? I don't think it has, therefore reproduction drives evolution further, it's exciting. Bells might actually get her chance of meeting a Klingon.

 

[davewhite04]

I will use smaller words.

Your parents reproduced and had you. However the processes that resulted in how you came to be, is a product of evolution.

You did not evolve from your parents.

Just like your brain did not evolve from your parents. You are a product of reproduction. But the process that allowed you to be reproduced by your parents, that allowed your brain and organs to develop as they did is itself a product of evolution.


Ummm no. We live in a time that is more technologically advanced, so your experiences allow for you to be more used to using technology. But it does not mean that you are more adaptable to technology. If you took someone from 100 years ago and gave them the same upbringing with access to the same technology that you have had access to for your whole life, they would be just as good at using it as you are.


Umm no. It doesn't.


Unless you are claiming that you are different to everyone else, ie, a new species, your comments aren't really making a lot of sense.

Evolution explains the diversity of life on this planet, down to an individual. Small steps they are but they're still steps. What you are saying actually do you believe what you write?

You say evolution does play a role, but humans don't change!?

 

[Bells]

Evolution explains the diversity of life on this planet, down to an individual. Small steps they are but they're still steps. What you are saying actually do you believe what you write?

You say evolution does play a role, but humans don't change!?

Umm that is not what I said.

You claimed that you evolved from your parents, that your brain evolved from your parents, that your brain is more adaptable to technology than your parents, etc..

I responded to each of those individually. I explained how you are a product of reproduction, but that the process involved in how you were reproduced, in how you developed, in how your brain developed happened because of evolution. In short, without evolution, you would not be here. Your parents were able to reproduce because human beings evolved to be able to reproduce as we do. Your brain exists as it does because the human brain evolved after hundreds of millions of years of evolution to become the human brain.

There hasn't been a leap in evolution between your parents and you that has resulted in your brain being different or better, so to speak. Do you understand now?

 

[davewhite04]

Umm that is not what I said.

You claimed that you evolved from your parents, that your brain evolved from your parents, that your brain is more adaptable to technology than your parents, etc..

I responded to each of those individually. I explained how you are a product of reproduction, but that the process involved in how you were reproduced, in how you developed, in how your brain developed happened because of evolution. In short, without evolution, you would not be here. Your parents were able to reproduce because human beings evolved to be able to reproduce as we do. Your brain exists as it does because the human brain evolved after hundreds of millions of years of evolution to become the human brain.

There hasn't been a leap in evolution between your parents and you that has resulted in your brain being different or better, so to speak. Do you understand now?

I understand, I basically pointed it out to you.

Without evolution=No reproduction
Without reproduction=No evolution

If you think that reproduction doesn't result in small changes, driven by evolution, then you might as well remove evolution from your belief system, if in fact you do believe in evolution.

 

[elte]

oh "scientific fact" what's a matter, scientific theory not a good enough word for you?



So there was a big pond full of DNA which was created by chance... a worm crawled out of it that ALLAH we have brains.

More recent evidence points to RNA existing before DNA.

 

[leopold]

leopold:
You tell lies.

this is your answer for "what was the conclusion of the conference ?"
what's the matter james, is it choking you to death?

i tell lies?
tell me, where is the retraction sourced from?
science never published a retraction, and they are responsible for the quote.
there is no evidence that ayala contacted science, but there IS evidence he contacted other sites.
science is 1 of 2 of the most respected journals on the planet james.
until science says otherwise, i will continue to post the conclusion was "small changes do not accumulate"
you can take your veiny head somewhere else.

Anyway, I've now dredged the record a bit - not thoroughly, because that's difficult to do since the forum software update - and I have now put the old information on record once again so it is easily accessible when you bring this bullshit up again next month or next year or whenever.

i believe the moderators* here are responsible for my posts appearing amongst multiple threads.
i believe the mods* are responsible for editing some of my posts beyond recognition.
i've come to realize one important thing, to protect my sources, and be careful of what i say.

* i don't think these mods are here anymore.