Denial of Evolution VI.

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Evidence of humans:
  • 800,000 years ago: Controlled fire and cooking
The fundamental technologies that made civilization possible were all discovered long before the postulated date of 3,000 years ago.
According to a recent article in Discover this date has been pushed back even further:


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Floodlights illuminate an archaeological site inside Wonderwerk Cave in South Africa.

cave-2.jpg

At the site, researchers have found evidence of human-controlled fires in million-year-old layers of earth.


At the base of a brush-covered hill in South Africa’s Northern Cape province, a massive stone outcropping marks the entrance to one of humanity’s oldest known dwelling places. Humans and our apelike ancestors have lived in Wonderwerk Cave for 2 million years — most recently in the early 1900s, when a farm couple and their 14 children called it home. Wonderwerk holds another distinction as well: The cave contains the earliest solid evidence that our ancient human forebears (probably Homo erectus) were using fire.

Like many archaeological discoveries, this one was accidental. Researchers weren’t looking for signs of prehistoric fire; they were trying to determine the age of sediments in a section of the cave where other researchers had found primitive stone tools. In the process, the team unearthed what appeared to be the remains of campfires from a million years ago — 200,000 years older than any other firm evidence of human-controlled fire. Their findings also fanned the flames of a decade-old debate over the influence of fire, particularly cooking, on the evolution of our species’s relatively capacious brains.

...

The Cooking Hypothesis

When the team announced its findings in April 2012, it added fuel to a controversy that’s been smoldering since 1999. That year, influential primatologist Richard Wrangham proposed a theory of human origins called the “cooking hypothesis.” Wrangham aimed to fill a gap in the story of how early hominins like Australopithecus — essentially, apes that walked upright — evolved into modern Homo sapiens. Evolutionary science shows that our distant progenitors became bipedal 6 million to 7 million years ago. Archaeologists believe early hominins evolved bigger brains as they walked, took up hunting and developed more complex social structures. That process led to the emergence of Homo habilis, the first creature generally regarded as human, 2.3 million years ago. Yet H. habilis’ brain was only moderately larger than Australopithecus’, and its body retained many apelike features. No one knows why, just 500,000 years later, a radically more advanced species — Homo erectus — emerged. Its brain was up to twice the size of its predecessor’s, its teeth were much smaller, and its body was quite similar to ours.

Wrangham credits the transformation to the harnessing of fire. Cooking food, he argues, allowed for easier chewing and digestion, making extra calories available to fuel energy-hungry brains. Firelight could ward off nighttime predators, allowing hominins to sleep on the ground, or in caves, instead of in trees. No longer needing huge choppers, heavy-duty guts or a branch swinger’s arms and shoulders, they could instead grow mega-craniums. The altered anatomy of H. erectus, Wrangham wrote, indicates that these beings, like us, were “creatures of flame.”​
 
Who would win the fight between modern man and the Neanderthal?

Modern man would - we would just NUKE them.

Fixed that; added the word "win" assuming u meant that.


If it were man to man ...fist to fist? no weaponry allowed?
The Neanderthal!
:)
 
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Isn't all reality an expression of inherent potential?
Indeed it is.

Actually, husbandry does not require "breeding" for anything. Simply cultivating crops suffices to meet the definition, no selection is necessary.

hus�band�ry (hzbn-dr)
a. The act or practice of cultivating crops and breeding and raising livestock; agriculture.

And today that includes improving the crops for greater yield (by selection or genetic engineering of superior seeds) and breeding livestock for maximum yield of milk or beef, by "selecting" those superior qualities and genetically introducing those traits into the livestock by breeding.

IOW, using the principles of natural selection but in a deliberate way over a much shorter time and in a controlled environment.

Allow me a little example of this man made selection for superior traits which went horribly wrong. Unfortunately it happened in my own country, Holland.

It was a result of Tulip growers "selecting" for superior beauty, rather than superior genetics. At that time tulip bulbs were worth their weight in gold as it was especially prized by wealthy socialites. It is said that one person traded several acres of land as payment for a single bulb.

Variegated tulips, those with contrasting markings, such as red (rosen) or purple (violetten) against a white ground (or bizarden, against a yellow ground), were most favored, especially those whose color was displayed as flames that symmetrically ran up the center of the pedal or feathers around the edges. This vivid coloring, which so bewitched the Dutch, was caused by a virus that, feeding on the sap of the tulip, infected and weakened it, breaking up the underlying red, blue, and purple pigments (anthocyanins) in the petals. A bulb that had produced a plain-colored flower one year might sport a magnificent variegated blossom the next season. A complete mystery at the time (and discovered only in 1927), this mosaic virus was conveyed by aphids, which flourished in the fruit trees that were a feature of seventeenth-century gardens. An infected tulip was said to be "broken" or rectified and there was no way to determine when, or if, such a flower would break. It was an unpredictable process that must have seemed almost miraculous but only added to the allure of the tulip�and its value. Once infected, the diseased bulb remained broken but also weakened and less likely to produce offsets, which also could be broken.
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/aconite/tulipomania.html

One example of husbandry (for commercial purposes) gone terribly wrong. In a natural environment the infected specimens would have become extinct within a few generations, unable to reproduce viable offspring.
 
Fixed that; added the word "win" assuming u meant that.

If it were man to man ...fist to fist? no weaponry allowed?
The Neanderthal!
:)
Thanks wegs - that was what I was meaning. So when they went face to face, the Homo Sapiens would have been armed then. They reckon there was a degree of interbreeding between the two strains of humans (Neanderthals and Homo sapiens) so we can't have been strictly separate species, is that right? There may have been a degree of hybrid vigour in the first cross. A good hunter with brains ....
 
Thanks wegs - that was what I was meaning. So when they went face to face, the Homo Sapiens would have been armed then. They reckon there was a degree of interbreeding between the two strains of humans (Neanderthals and Homo sapiens) so we can't have been strictly separate species, is that right? There may have been a degree of hybrid vigour in the first cross. A good hunter with brains ....

Yes, probably so robittybob.
Good points...

So...
A strong hunter with brains....
Do these men exist today?
Must I go back in a time machine?
Lol
:p ;)
 
Yes, probably so robittybob.
Good points...

So...
A strong hunter with brains....
Do these men exist today?
Must I go back in a time machine?
Lol :p ;)

No need to go back in time, we can find Neandertal genes in modern humans today.

Researchers sequencing Neandertal DNA have concluded that between 1 and 4 percent of the DNA of people today who live outside Africa came from Neandertals, the result of interbreeding between Neandertals and early modern humans.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=neandertal-genome-study-r.

I wonder if studies reveal certain traits in modern humans which were exclusively Neandertal, until the species crossbred.
 
Really? I don't know why this fact surprises me.
I was sort of joking around.
Sort of. ;)

From the link above.
Intriguingly, the researchers failed to detect a special affinity to Europeans—a link that might have been expected given that Neandertals seem to have persisted in Europe longer than anywhere else before disappearing around 28,000 years ago. Rather, the Neandertal sequence was equally close to sequences from present-day people from France, Papua New Guinea and China, even though no Neandertal specimens have turned up in the latter two parts of the world. By way of explanation, the investigators suggest that the interbreeding occurred in the Middle East between 45,000 and 80,000 years ago, before moderns fanned out to other parts of the Old World and split into different groups.

Note that the Middle East was a bottleneck in the migration from Africa, bringing separated groups closer together.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal

I wonder what happened to the "h" in Neanderthal.
 
Particularly interesting is the fact about Europe. How did they just "disappear" do u suppose?
That's odd.

Lol @ the missing "h"
It's like that throughout.
:confused:

This seems a plausible explanation. Do check the site, its informative.
Some scientists have suggested modern humans outcompeted or outright killed the Neanderthals. But the new genetic evidence provides support for another theory: Perhaps our ancestors made love, not war, with their European cousins, and the Neanderthal lineage disappeared because it was absorbed into the much larger human population.
https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/neanderthal/

In addition to the great apes, there seems to be at least a third advanced hominid present during those times, the Denisovans.

This is so fascinating, taking a journey back in time and have a look at our cousins in the family Hominidae . It makes racism seem so primitive.
Family Hominidae
Graecopithecus (?=Ouranopithecus)† (placement debated) Graecopithecus freybergi (?=Ouranopithecus macedoniensis)

Otavipithecus† Otavipithecus namibiensis

Morotopithecus† Morotopithecus bishopi

Subfamily Ponginae[15] Tribe Lufengpithecini† Lufengpithecus Lufengpithecus lufengensis
Lufengpithecus keiyuanensis
Lufengpithecus hudienensis


Tribe Sivapithecini† Ankarapithecus Ankarapithecus meteai

Sivapithecus Sivapithecus brevirostris
Sivapithecus punjabicus
Sivapithecus parvada
Sivapithecus sivalensis
Sivapithecus indicus

Gigantopithecus Gigantopithecus bilaspurensis
Gigantopithecus blacki
Gigantopithecus giganteus


Tribe Pongini Khoratpithecus† Khoratpithecus ayeyarwadyensis
Khoratpithecus piriyai
Khoratpithecus chiangmuanensis

Pongo (orangutans) Pongo hooijer†



Subfamily Homininae[16][17] Pierolapithecus† Pierolapithecus catalaunicus

Udabnopithecus† Udabnopithecus garedziensis

Tribe Dryopithecini† Oreopithecus (placement disputed) Oreopithecus bambolii

Nakalipithecus Nakalipithecus nakayamai

Anoiapithecus Anoiapithecus brevirostris

Dryopithecus Dryopithecus wuduensis
Dryopithecus fontani
Dryopithecus brancoi
Dryopithecus laietanus
Dryopithecus crusafonti


Rudapithecus† Rudapithecus hungaricus

Samburupithecus† Samburupithecus kiptalami

Tribe Gorillini Chororapithecus † (placement debated) Chororapithecus abyssinicus


Tribe Hominini Sahelanthropus† (hominin status highly problematic) Sahelanthropus tchadensis

Orrorin† Orrorin tugenensis

Subtribe Hominina Ardipithecus† Ardipithecus ramidus
Ardipithecus kadabba

Kenyanthropus† (placement debated) Kenyanthropus platyops

Praeanthropus†[18] Praeanthropus bahrelghazali
Praeanthropus anamensis
Praeanthropus afarensis

Australopithecus† Australopithecus africanus
Australopithecus garhi
Australopithecus sediba

Paranthropus† Paranthropus aethiopicus
Paranthropus robustus
Paranthropus boisei

Homo – immediate ancestors of modern humans Homo gautengensis†
Homo rudolfensis†
Homo habilis†
Homo floresiensis†
Homo erectus†
Homo ergaster†
Homo antecessor†
Homo heidelbergensis†
Homo cepranensis†
Denisovans (scientific name has not yet been assigned)†
Homo neanderthalensis†
Homo rhodesiensis†
Homo sapiens Homo sapiens idaltu†
Archaic Homo sapiens (Cro-magnon)†
Red Deer Cave people† (scientific name has not yet been assigned; perhaps a race of modern humans or a hybrid[19] of modern humans and Denisovans[20])
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominidae

http://anthro.palomar.edu/hominid/australo_1.htm
http://www.pnas.org/content/96/13/7117.full
 
This seems a plausible explanation. Do check the site, its informative.

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/neanderthal/

Ok...no joke, this is BEYOND fascinating. Many people TODAY have genes from archaic humans??!
This is pretty incredible.
Could it explain why some ppl get cancer and some don't? (all things being equal, other reasons being ruled out of course)
I think I'm going to search tomorrow for some more in depth books on this because I want to learn more!
This is exciting, don't u think? :)

In addition to the great apes, there seems to be at least a third advanced hominid present during those times, the Denisovans.

This is fascinating and I want to know why this isn't being publicized more? It's not something talked about when debating evolution.


I will read tomorrow...and share my thoughts.
Don't know about anyone else reading this right now but this is special.
I will post here if I find any books on this ...I will look on my kindle.
Thanks write4u!
 
Haha I see your edit above! :D
Don't laugh at me, but is there any way to trace our lineage back to that which you listed above? It would be difficult but do u think it's impossible?

I'm going to research A LOT on this tomorrow and see what I discover.
Uber excited! :)
 
Haha I see your edit above! :D
Don't laugh at me, but is there any way to trace our lineage back to that which you listed above? It would be difficult but do u think it's impossible?

I'm going to research A LOT on this tomorrow and see what I discover.
Uber excited! :)

You can have your own DNA tested (cheaply) and see who and where your ancestors came from. You might very surprised.
I have not had it done myself but some friends have and they found revealing.
http://dna.ancestry.com/?s_kwcid=dna+testing+ancestry&o_xid=56188&o_lid=56188&o_sch=Search

or the more expensive, but scientific research of the National Genographic project, sponsored by The National Geographic
http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/ngs/browse/productDetail.jsp?productId=2001246&gsk&code=MR20936
 
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One has to be open minded I guess...I mean, is it that far fetched considering there were a number of them in Europe at one point? Since I'm half Italian, it is catching my interest. :) I'm looking into this. Why not?

Thanks for the links and info.
 
Particularly interesting is the fact about Europe. How did they just "disappear" do u suppose?
That's odd.

Lol @ the missing "h"
It's like that throughout.
:confused:
I saw it demonstrated in baboons, when the competition pressure came on one band retreated into less favourable environments and hence died off in blizzards etc. Life can just get too tough if you go too far into the backblocks.
Look at where the last of the "wild men" persist ... Yeti, Bigfoot, and there was another type in Russia. None are in areas that are easy-living places.
"Yeti - hunt for the wildman."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6F6FwMUyCA

"Bigfoot of the Rockies (Documentary)"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPNflytHGvA

Almas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almas_(cryptozoology)
 
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Evidence of humans:
  • 800,000 years ago: Controlled fire and cooking
  • 500,000 years ago: Stone spear tips (this was Homo heidelbergensis, an ancestral human species that lived before H. sapiens)
  • 250,000 years ago: Hematite and limonite were used as crayons for drawing and decoration
  • 100,000 years ago: Beads
  • 100,000 years ago: Graves with flowers at Homo neanderthalensis sites, a closely-related, cold weather-adapted species of humans that lived in Europe before the Ice Age began to warm up, allowing H. sapiens to migrate to that continent
  • 100,000 years ago: Sophisticated artist kit
  • 77,000 years ago: Mattress made of sedges and grasses with laurel leaves, which emit insect-killing chemicals
  • 77,000 years ago: Recorded symbols
  • 70,000 years ago: Clothing--this was when body lice, which can only live under the protection of clothing, speciated from head lice.
  • 35,000 years ago: Flute made from a mammoth tusk
  • 12,000 years ago: The first cultivated plants, fig trees
  • 11,000 years ago: The first Stone-Age city, Jericho
  • 10,000 years ago: The first domesticated farm animals, cattle
  • 5,500 years ago: Bronze metallurgy, the domesticated horse, the wheel, written language
The fundamental technologies that made civilization possible were all discovered long before the postulated date of 3,000 years ago.

Just seems off to me. 100s of thousands of years and not even a pencil?
 
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