Denial of evolution III

[Fraggle Rocker]

What is the probability to appear channel into tooth,due to random genetic mutations? And to appear venomous glands and the channel that connects the tooth?

You're getting into the realm of statistical calculation using very large numbers. In the case of an animal that reaches sexual maturity in one year (which includes the majority of species), one million years equals one million generations. If the probability of any particular mutation is not zero, then it's quite unremarkable that it could actually occur over that time span.

This is similar to the questions about the Big Bang: "How could something that unlikely ever happen?" Space-time is infinite, so anything that is possible, i.e. conforms to the laws of physics, can happen without being preposterous. (Yes, I'm aware of the school of thought that says space-time is finite because there was no space or time before the Big Bang. My response to that is on the Cosmology board, where it more properly belongs.)

 

[Neverfly]

Evolution seems to be described as a Process so often that many people tend to forget that it is more accurately defined as a result of a process of change.

Anything is Evolution.
Evolution is not some strict process. It's pretty much anything goes.

Young women evolve into saggy breasted women. Why? Because gravity tugs tits. Not that I blame it...
Cars evolve into rust. Why? Because iron oxidizes over time.
Cheese evolved into blue cheese. Why? Because it got moldy.
Yummers.
We don't eat just anything that is moldy. But with blue cheese, it was an advantageous trait.

In Geology, we can see Evolution.
Wind and rain and erosion take a rocky mountain down. Eventually you have a plain that is excellent and fertile for agriculture.

How did the soil know what elements to contain to give the plants nutrition?
How did the ground know to flatten?
How did the soil know to become a huge area of humus several meters thick so that roots didn't crash into bedrock?
How did all the right conditions evolve into perfect farming land?

Ever heard the saying, "There's no such thing as a stupid question."?
Yeah there is.
I gave four examples of shithead stupidass questions above.

Evolution is nothing more than changes that occur. How does a tree branch growing sideways know that kids will tie ropes to it with a tire?
When a useful change is found, it gets used. And that is called adaptation.

What happens when changes occur in biological things which are basically blobs off goo?
Things that have inherited coding - Why.. they pass those changes on.
And in the course of not just millions, but billions of years, all these changes add up.
I mean seriously... What the hell ARE these hideous things?:

That's us. Well... it used to be. But we changed. Over generations and generations for billion years... changes kept happening because that's what time brings- Changes.
And all that phenomenal amount of time, these changes add up to Significant changes.




Don't be shy. Say 'hi' to Grandpa.

 

[Shadow1]

.

I want to state very clearly.
I do not deny evolution but I think there are many aspects queries.
I was moved here to the theard "Denial of evolution" without my will.

i beleive in evolution, but also i don't, i mean, i beleive in evolution, as a wayof adaptation and change, but i don't beleive in evolution as a random thing that happpends when it wants, and just make random changes in genes, without faults, or, without side effects, like, a person, with no legs, or, two person stuck together, or two persons sharing a one heart, etc... evolution is not a random changes, it may be faar more complicated, it's not random, it's not just, a line, that goes, whatever anything, do you get my point? or i think i should explain more what i mean?

 

[Neverfly]

i beleive in evolution, but also i don't, i mean, i beleive in evolution, as a wayof adaptation and change, but i don't beleive in evolution as a random thing that happpends when it wants, and just make random changes in genes, without faults, or, without side effects, like, a person, with no legs, or, two person stuck together, or two persons sharing a one heart, etc... evolution is not a random changes, it may be faar more complicated, it's not random, it's not just, a line, that goes, whatever anything, do you get my point? or i think i should explain more what i mean?

This is like saying, "Sure, I believe that there is such a thing as cheese.
And I believe that there is such a thing as blue cheese.
I believe that cheese can grow mold...
But I don't believe that random mold growing on some hunk of cheese makes Blue Cheese.
I believe God made blue cheese just for us to enjoy."


Don't be so surprised that I roll my eyes.

 

[Shadow1]

.

That's us. Well... it used to be. But we changed. Over generations and generations for billion years... changes kept happening because that's what time brings- Changes.
And all that phenomenal amount of time, these changes add up to Significant changes.




Don't be shy. Say 'hi' to Grandpa.

but don't say the changes are random and for reason

 

[Neverfly]

but don't say the changes are random and for reason

The only "reason" behind it is because change happens with time and when advantageous changes get used, they are more productively passed on.

Would YOU 'design' us in the crazy halfbassackwards way that we are?
I wouldn't. We're a mess.

But that's the problem with a lack of design. We're just the product of a bunch of changes because things change with time.
Are they Random? Didn't we just argue with Emil over this?

Random simply means, "Unspecified or unpredictable" events that bring about changes.

We can specify a great deal of them, but in the extremely complex system at work, we cannot track every last atom in order to Predict when such events occur.

 

[Shadow1]

.

This is like saying, "Sure, I believe that there is such a thing as cheese.
And I believe that there is such a thing as blue cheese.
I believe that cheese can grow mold...
But I don't believe that random mold growing on some hunk of cheese makes Blue Cheese.
I believe God made blue cheese just for us to enjoy."


Don't be so surprised that I roll my eyes.

then you didnt understand what did i mean.

 

[Neverfly]

then you didnt understand what did i mean.

Yes. I did.

No, Shadow1, it is you that failed to understand the very basic and simple premise of how things evolve.

 

[Shadow1]

.

Yes. I did.

No, Shadow1, it is you that failed to understand the very basic and simple premise of how things evolve.

if you did understand, then tell me what did you understand? and i'll tell you yes or no.


ok, then you explain to me.

 

[Neverfly]

if you did understand, then tell me what did you understand? and i'll tell you yes or no.


ok, then you explain to me.

What you said is that while you accept that changes occur, they are caused by some guiding force.

Now, if that is not what you had Meant- That's not on me. It's on you.

 

[Shadow1]

i didnt say that, i mean, by giding force, see how do you have a complexe against people who beleive in god?
i do beleivet hat god created the evolution, as an atomotic thing. but also i don't beleive it's just, random, and not studied, and precise, followed with many many rules, and etc...

 

[Neverfly]

i didnt say that, i mean, by giding force,

How do you misspell a word that I just spelled for you?

see how do you have a complexe against people who beleive in god?

No, because:

i do beleivet hat god created the evolution,

...Because you demonstrated such was the case.

as an atomotic thing. but also i don't beleive it's just, random, and not studied, and precise, followed with many many rules, and etc...

Your "belief" is irrelevant to what is.

If you believe that Evolution is Intelligently Guided, then you Do Not Understand Evolution.


See my post above with the pretty picture of Gramps.
Read it this time. Try to fathom it.

 

[Shadow1]

i meant, it's like, a program, a programmaer, maked a program, that works automotickly, and idk.

and it seems you still have the complexe
byt, let's just stop it here. i'm not going to discuss more about it with you .

 

[Neverfly]

i meant, it's like, a program, a programmaer, maked a program, that works automotickly, and idk.

That not only does not describe Evolution, are you aware that it totally removes an intelligent designer?
This restriction you arbitrarily applied would require the programmer to LEAVE at the instant of creation and then never again interfere with the process.
While it might support a creator, he'd be a shoddy, inept and absent one. Not much support there, for one trying to maintain their belief...

and it seems you still have the complexe

Yes, your inaccurate representations are somehow magically the fault of "my complex." Whatever...

byt, let's just stop it here. i'm not going to discuss more about it with you .

Ignorance is bliss...

 

[Emil]

You're getting into the realm of statistical calculation using very large numbers. In the case of an animal that reaches sexual maturity in one year (which includes the majority of species), one million years equals one million generations. If the probability of any particular mutation is not zero, then it's quite unremarkable that it could actually occur over that time span.

Come on Fraggle!
This is a demonstration scientifically?
I have asked several times the probability.
Very intresant as to avoid any exact calculation.
Show 'me the probability and number of attempts.

This is similar to the questions about the Big Bang: "How could something that unlikely ever happen?" Space-time is infinite, so anything that is possible, i.e. conforms to the laws of physics, can happen without being preposterous. (Yes, I'm aware of the school of thought that says space-time is finite because there was no space or time before the Big Bang. My response to that is on the Cosmology board, where it more properly belongs.)

You understand probability 0 to infinity is 1? Is a purely mathematical concept.
Practical means if you throw a die with six sides for infinite times sure will go out side 7.
If you put into practice this theoretical concept,
very much like the concept of God where anything is possible.

 

[Emil]

i beleive in evolution, but also i don't, i mean, i beleive in evolution, as a wayof adaptation and change, but i don't beleive in evolution as a random thing that happpends when it wants, and just make random changes in genes, without faults, or, without side effects, like, a person, with no legs, or, two person stuck together, or two persons sharing a one heart, etc... evolution is not a random changes, it may be faar more complicated, it's not random, it's not just, a line, that goes, whatever anything, do you get my point? or i think i should explain more what i mean?

What you can I say is:I do not know how to come up and how life developed on earth.
Is something like this:"Why the more we know, the more we know that we don't know anything"

 

[Shadow1]

0

Is something like this:"Why the more we know, the more we know that we don't know anything"

that's my phrase ! hehehehehe

 

[Shadow1]

.

What you can I say is:I do not know how to come up and how life developed on earth.

yes, true, but i know it did develope, but also i find it, hard to beelive, how did start from nothing, to become as it is today, in just few billion years so, i beleive, in a starting point, then evolution take place and kepp happening.
(thoghts)

 

[Neverfly]

yes, true, but i know it did develope, but also i find it, hard to beelive, how did start from nothing,

Because it DIDN'T start from Nothing.

 

[Emil]

yes, true, but i know it did develope, but also i find it, hard to beelive, how did start from nothing, to become as it is today, in just few billion years so, i beleive, in a starting point, then evolution take place and kepp happening.
(thoghts)

I am glad for you.
I am still looking.