Denial of evolution III

Status
Not open for further replies.
...Now, indicate why primates live in Africa today but not early humans. Use TOE to explain it and not conjecture.

Answer: Because the early humans either left or died. *points at his TOE* Like if I got up and walked out of the room, my TOE would be gone from the room as well, but if I cut it off and burned it up, my TOE would be dead no matter how well suited it was before that.

I understand that there is no point in presenting you with either fact or logic, as these do not work with you, Jack. That's OK though, we can muddle along anyhow. :)

Here is one for your comic book though: No matter how well suited a bug may be for his/her environment, if I step on him/her, she/he will be a dead squashed bug. In this world, we refer to this as "sometimes shit happens". This has occurred before, to people and other great apes that are no longer there.
 
I see so why would early humans be extinct in Africa and not monkeys?

You will need to explain this.

You cannot assume the theory works and then prove it works. That is a typical SR argument.

The theory needs to survice on its own without assumptions to protect it.

Now, indicate why primates live in Africa today but not early humans. Use TOE to explain it and not conjecture.

Modern humans aren't as strong as many monkeys or apes, and would not survive in the forests as easily as they. You have to wonder how any humans survived at all! The answer of course is our ability to learn and make tools, but perhaps this was not as highly developed in early humans, and they might have been in later ones. Don't forget, millions of years ago, there were also many more species of monkeys and apes. Modern times have seen the extinction of many ape species and early hominids were among them.
 
Large brains need more oxygen and more energy to run. If there's a shortage of food, for example, then having a large brain may well be detrimental to your survival chances.
Specifically, large brains require more protein. As dogs evolved into a distinct subspecies of wolf, C. lupus familiaris, and adapted from a predator's diet to a lower-protein scavenger's diet, the size of their brain decreased.

The earliest human ancestors were not predators. The invention of stone blades gave them the ability to scrape the meat off of the bones left by predators, becoming more efficient scavengers and increasing the protein in their diet. This became a cycle of greater intelligence, more clever toolmaking, more meat... until hunting weapons were perfected, turning us into the first predatory ape species, and ultimately H. sapiens, the apex predator of the entire planetary ecosystem.
 
Last edited:
Possibly. While those things may be advantageous in certain environments, they may well be an impediment in others.

For example, there's a cost to a large brain. Large brains need more oxygen and more energy to run. If there's a shortage of food, for example, then having a large brain may well be detrimental to your survival chances.

You seem to be making against the case that humans should be alive today based on your logic.

You should explain why humans are here and not their ancestors according to TOE.

I thought that would be obvious.
 
Answer: Because the early humans either left or died. *points at his TOE* Like if I got up and walked out of the room, my TOE would be gone from the room as well, but if I cut it off and burned it up, my TOE would be dead no matter how well suited it was before that.

I understand that there is no point in presenting you with either fact or logic, as these do not work with you, Jack. That's OK though, we can muddle along anyhow. :)

Here is one for your comic book though: No matter how well suited a bug may be for his/her environment, if I step on him/her, she/he will be a dead squashed bug. In this world, we refer to this as "sometimes shit happens". This has occurred before, to people and other great apes that are no longer there.

You have nothing interesting to respond to.
 
Modern humans aren't as strong as many monkeys or apes, and would not survive in the forests as easily as they. You have to wonder how any humans survived at all! The answer of course is our ability to learn and make tools, but perhaps this was not as highly developed in early humans, and they might have been in later ones. Don't forget, millions of years ago, there were also many more species of monkeys and apes. Modern times have seen the extinction of many ape species and early hominids were among them.

This is not sufficient under TOE as to why a species like pre-humans are not around today.
 
You seem to be making against the case that humans should be alive today based on your logic.

You should explain why humans are here and not their ancestors according to TOE.

I thought that would be obvious.

Why are you here and not your ancestors?
Why are babies killed in car accidents?
Why are some babies survivors of car accidents?

Your posts lack any sense of logic. You have no grounds to declare anything about anyone elses logic.

Singly, you must be the most amazing poster I have ever observed.
 
You seem to be saying they are not.
modern primates are a completely different species compared with early humans.

There's nothing wrong with skepticism. It's very important to the progress of science. Evolution itself is a scientific fact. The process of how evolution occurs is still under intense investigation and is itself a very interesting field of study.
 
All these do not operate under TOE and explain the fact early humans are extinct.
Early humans are extinct because they failed to survive. As to why they didn't survive - there are probably a lot of interesting hypothesis out there. The answer may never be known. Do you have any good ideas as to why early humans didn't survive?


Just to make sure, we all agree:
- There once were early humans in existence?
- These creatures do not exist today.
- They were our ancestors.
- They are extinct.

We're just wondering why they went extinct right? I'm not sure if we can ever truly know that answer. Maybe their environment changed and they couldn't cope well with this change, as in have enough offspring, and eventually died off. Or maybe there was a slightly better human that took their resources and murdered them off - maybe even eating them. We're killing off all sorts of species today for food, for environment, ect... I don't see why the same wouldn't be true in the past.
 
Jack_:

You should explain why humans are here and not their ancestors according to TOE.

The reason is that homo sapiens outcompeted our ancestor species for the available resources, as well as in terms of surviving hardship (especially during the last ice age).
 
Early humans are extinct because they failed to survive. As to why they didn't survive - there are probably a lot of interesting hypothesis out there. The answer may never be known.
You're making the mistake of talking about evolution as though it proceeds in discrete steps. First there is Australopithecus, then it dies off and H. erectus takes its place, then the same with the other intermediate species, and then finally the last one dies off and H. sapiens arises. It doesn't work that way.

Mutations occur continuously in individuals within a species. Occasionally one mutation or a cluster of mutations makes the individuals who have it somewhat better suited to their environment, so they tend to reproduce and survive at a higher rate than the individuals who don't have it. Eventually most of the individuals in the population have those mutations, but it's still the same species. The individuals accept each other as the same species and, in a pack-social species like humans, they trust and care for each other as pack mates. We can't even clearly distinguish the fossilized bones of the mutated individuals from the others. In fact we often don't usually even have intermediate fossils, since the conditions for fossilization are very specific and don't occur as often as paleontoligsts would like. The creationists who ask why we don't have more fossils simply don't understand how remarkable it is that we have any at all.

Another mechanism is the genetic bottleneck. Due to a disaster or sheer luck, of the entire species, in one particular generation only the individuals with the mutation survive. The mutation itself may not even have been a survival advantage, it was just fate. This has happened a couple of times in our species within the past quarter million years. We all have one single male ancestor, Y-Chromosome Adam, and one single female ancestor, Mitochondrial Eve, from two different eras. The descendants of their peers all died out.

This happens several times, and eventually you end up with a different species. There has been a more-or-less slow and smooth transition from one to the other, and it's not possible to say clearly at which point the speciation occurred. The previous unmutated population may still be in existence, but the earlier population lacking the last ten or twenty mutations is long gone.
Do you have any good ideas as to why early humans didn't survive?
They did survive. They just changed slowly. If you take a snapshot of the "average" human at, say, twenty-thousand year intervals, you will see a series of barely discernable differences. It's hard to tell one from the next, but over the millennia the changes are significant.

Nobody died out. Their descendants were just ever so slightly different.

The average human twenty thousand years ago was substantially shorter than the average human today. But not so short that he would necessarily stand out in a crowd. Keep going back and you find more hair, changes in skull shape, etc. Eventually after you've gone back a quarter of a million years you say, "Hey, these people are definitely not our species." But it's hard to pick a date when that speciation occurred. We're guided by the fossils we have available. There is not a flip-book, with a fossil recovered for every thousand years. We work with what we've got.
 
Not so sure that none of them died out, there could have been isolated populations that did die out, perhaps the "hobbits" of Flores are an example.
 
Not so sure that none of them died out, there could have been isolated populations that did die out, perhaps the "hobbits" of Flores are an example.
Sure, but Homo floresiensis is not an ancestral species to our own, so it doesn't quite fit the question that's on the table. The same can be said for H. neanderthalensis. It has not been established whether the Neanderthals crossbred with our species, in which case Europeans could be a hybrid of the two species. But in either case, Neanderthals were not ancestors of H. sapiens itself.

The ancestral line of our species is actually a bit murky. But it seems to me that Homo erectus is most likely to turn out to be our most recent ancestor, having descended from H. habilis, the earliest species in genus Homo instead of the extinct genus Australopithecus.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top