Denial of evolution III

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spidergoat said:
Every time we look for fossils that must be there, they are found. That's what I call evidence. We have found intermediary species between ape-like creatures and humans. This is what one would expect to find if we evolved from an ape-like creature. If God made mankind from scratch, there would be no such fossils.
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In the fossil record what you are finding is completed animals. Which with creation is what you would find. But not in evolution. The reason you can predict new animals is because to the organized way in which things were done.
In evolution you should not find this predictability. It should be much more random. Also the fossil record does not included the transitional fossils that you would expect to find with evolution. ( and please don't tell me everything is transitional, because that is not what I am talking about )
This was in question for a long time, even Darwin knew that if these types of fossils were not found his theory's would worthless. Now with over a hundred years of searching after Darwin the fossil record still does not have any of these fossils recorded. The only way you could have what we see today and from fossils is from design.
 
What's the better method :

1. Start out admitting you don't know and refining and developing your views as more and more knowledge is accumulated.
2. Start out with a single immutable viewpoint and ignore any and all things to the contrary.

Yes, it's true that method 1 isn't certain to provide you will all answers but it demonstrably will provide you with answers method 2 cannot. A LOT more answers. And it doesn't matter how wrong you are initially if you follow Method 1 because you learn from your mistakes. Method 2 does not. If you're wrong initially you're forever wrong.

Method 1 is the scientific method. Method 2 is religious dogma. It doesn't require faith to say 'The scientific method has expanded our understanding and knowledge of the world around us", it's a fact. It requires a basic denial of reality to claim religious teachings have extended our understanding of the world around us in practical terms. Science has a proven track record. Religion has a failed track record. If its wrong today it'll be wrong tomorrow. Out of science and religion only science can be wrong today and right tomorrow.
 
In the fossil record what you are finding is completed animals. Which with creation is what you would find. But not in evolution.
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That is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have read on this forum. Of course they are complete, every single species that ever lived was the product of many millions of years adapting to it's environment. You are under the delusion that animals are leading towards some goal- that the proto-horse was not a successful animal in it's own right, but merely a stop on the road to a "true horse". It's a common misconception. I don't know why you dismiss the notion that all animals are transitional, it's true. However, there are periods of relative stability in terms of physical attributes, and times of more rapid change. One might expect fewer fossils from the time of rapid change, since it didn't last as long.

The reason you can predict new animals is because to the organized way in which things were done.
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No, we don't see organization (argument from design). What we see are haphazard adaptations that derive from previous forms. They include vestigal body parts and parts that work just well enough (the panda's thumb), but are not perfect.

In evolution you should not find this predictability. It should be much more random.
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Why? Evolution is not random, it is the opposite of random.

Now with over a hundred years of searching after Darwin the fossil record still does not have any of these fossils recorded.
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http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html

Here is a site that lists hundreds of them. Read it and weap for your dead God.
 
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786 said:
They make connections trying to fit it with evidence based upon their preconceived ideas that Evolution in-fact did occur.
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As opposed to preconceived beliefs about invisible imaginary beings waving their magic hands?

Even if you could demonstrate evolution didn't occur, you're right back to those faith based notions of creation. You simply don't have any other explanation that fits into every scientific study from biology to chemistry to cosmology so well as does evolution.

What you must do in order to continue that line of thought is to first understand evolution and then offer an alternative explanation that doesn't fall back on cult doctrines.

...the connections are made through imaginary beings for which there is no evidence.
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Do you have any idea how difficult it is finding fossils? They are the result of a very special process not often captured in nature. If not for the right turn of events, fossils would not form.

Is the history of the earth going to be handed to us on a platter? Do you expect all the answers to be there at your whim and if you aren't completely satisfied, you'll jump right back on the 'god did it' bandwagon?

The only imaginary beings you'll ever find are in your holy book.
 
786,

“ ...the connections are made through imaginary beings for which there is no evidence. ”

Do you have any idea how difficult it is finding fossils? They are the result of a very special process not often captured in nature. If not for the right turn of events, fossils would not form.
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So you have a problem with some gaps in the history, which may or may not be found in the future due to what Q just explained. But have no problem believing this:



"Sixth day: God commands the land to bring forth living creatures (seventh command); He makes wild beasts, livestock and reptiles. He then creates Man and Woman in His "image" and "likeness" (eighth command). They are told to "be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it." Humans and animals are given plants to eat. The totality of creation is described by God as "very good."

Ok, so do you believe in dinosaurs ?

If you do, why ?

Also, why do we have canine teeth ?
 
or wisdom teeth. mine were impacted and not even visible. our ancestors had bigger jaws and useful 'wisdom' teeth. just seems like a throw back and a last vestige.
 
spidergoat said:
That is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have read on this forum. Of course they are complete, every single species that ever lived was the product of many millions of years adapting to it's environment. You are under the delusion that animals are leading towards some goal- that the proto-horse was not a successful animal in it's own right, but merely a stop on the road to a "true horse". It's a common misconception. I don't know why you dismiss the notion that all animals are transitional, it's true. However, there are periods of relative stability in terms of physical attributes, and times of more rapid change. One might expect fewer fossils from the time of rapid change, since it didn't last as long.


No, we don't see organization (argument from design). What we see are haphazard adaptations that derive from previous forms. They include vestigal body parts and parts that work just well enough (the panda's thumb), but are not perfect.


Why? Evolution is not random, it is the opposite of random.


http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html

Here is a site that lists hundreds of them. Read it and weap for your dead God.
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That is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have read on this forum. Of course they are complete, every single species that ever lived was the product of many millions of years adapting to it's environment. You are under the delusion that animals are leading towards some goal- that the proto-horse was not a successful animal in it's own right, but merely a stop on the road to a "true horse". It's a common misconception. I don't know why you dismiss the notion that all animals are transitional, it's true. However, there are periods of relative stability in terms of physical attributes, and times of more rapid change. One might expect fewer fossils from the time of rapid change, since it didn't last as long.
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That not a very nice thing to say. It is obvious you haven't thought about this very much. If you have a cell and it starts to mutate now this cell that does not have any heredity in it , how does it start to develop bone for instance? Even if it produced by some by mistake, bone material, what shape would it be , would it be placed correctly, would it kill that cell right off the bat, so there would be no reproduction. So another cell would have mutate and again make some bone material, but again it has to place it some where,it has to be of some useful shape. what would you expect to see in a fossil record you would see millions of these trial and error fossils, before anything useful would appear . It is these types of transitional fossils that are not in the record. Not in the higher forms of life or anywhere. But what is found is completed animals without the transitional ones.
Just because some animals look the same with slight differences, does prove or even show that it evolved. It also could have been created and the slight changes made to DNA for the new animal. The fossil record supports creation but it does not support evolution. The randomness of evolution with bits of body parts sticking out every where, until correct placement was found would be in the millions compared to one completed animal. So there should be no shortage of these fossils. But there is complete lack of transitional fossils.
That is why you can predict, new animals because the orderliness of creation.
 
The fossil record supports creation but it does not support evolution. The randomness of evolution with bits of body parts sticking out every where, until correct placement was found would be in the millions compared to one completed animal. So there is no shortage of fossils. But there is complete lack of transitional fossils.
That is why you can predict, new animals because the orderliness of creation.
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i think you are seeing what you want to see.

then you have to ask yourself, why would god create all these (millions of them) closely related species? to me this seems like something occurring in nature and fairly random.
 
iceaura said:
I see no fundamental difference in the understanding. Where is it?
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Evolutionary theory- all mutations are random
Theohomolution- the mutations for the humans are non-random

------FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE-----------

Evolutionary theory- The randomness is selected by the natural process of Natural Selection

Evolution by Godly Selection- The randomness is selected by a supernatural force


------FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE-----------

Your understanding of how Humans came about, are they special or not, is evolution due to natural process or a supernatural process.... The understanding between this is completely different!

Peace be unto you ;)
 
jpappl said:
786, So you have a problem with some gaps in the history, which may or may not be found in the future due to what Q just explained. But have no problem believing this:
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Which explanation, this thread is full of stuff it would be nice if you provided the post #.

And I'm not a Christian :rolleyes:

I have no problem in believing Dinosaurs- why? We have fossils don't we- although the evolution of dinosaurs is probably a BS story made up by scientists- I plan to do some research on the topic next summer.

Peace be unto you ;)
 
786 said:
I have no problem in believing Dinosaurs- why? We have fossils don't we- although the evolution of dinosaurs is probably a BS story made up by scientists- I plan to do some research on the topic next summer.
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Dinosaur evolved deal with it.
 
James R said:
Do you believe in birds?
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I know the story.... I am a bio major afterall..... I find the idea still to be BS..... Its just my opinion- that is why I want to do some research on it next summer. They found some new fossils which I want to see how the whole thing fits.... If they did evolve that way, I have no problem accepting it.

Peace be unto you ;)
 
786 said:
They found some new fossils which I want to see how the whole thing fits.... If they did evolve that way, I have no problem accepting it.
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How will accepting it help to remedy your contradictory religious beliefs? Does that mean you will no longer accept the doctrines of creation your religion has assigned?
 
(Q) said:
How will accepting it help to remedy your contradictory religious beliefs? Does that mean you will no longer accept the doctrines of creation your religion has assigned?
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Dinosaurs have nothing to do with my religion....

Peace be unto you ;)
 
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