Deliberate Muscle Damage

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Blue_UK

Drifting Mind
Valued Senior Member
Everyone knows that when you work out, you damage muscles and they grow back stronger...

What is the feasability of artifically damaging muscles, so that you get extra muscle without having to break too much of a sweat?

Perhaps there are enzymes that could be administered that either promote damage or the growth itself.
 
its just not good, if you rupture a muscle, it may grow back bigger but you will be out for weeks before hand
 
"Everyone knows"... that phrase is guaranteed to sound the bullshit alarm in every critical thinker.
 
I love using that phrase - I'm so tired of over cautiously listing presumptions before statements like "Assuming no wind resistance and given this and that" that sometimes I just push and hope people will not interpret it badly.

Anyway, vslayer, assuming the same amount of damage is done artifically as would have been done naturally, then you'd not be 'out for weeks'? (Based on the fact that you're not incapcitated from a reasonable work out).

Perhaps you'd be able to get away with three times the damage even, but that's blind speculation.

More to the original point: how could you damage them?
 
I love using that phrase - I'm so tired of over cautiously listing presumptions before statements like "Assuming no wind resistance and given this and that" that sometimes I just push and hope people will not interpret it badly.

Anyway, vslayer, assuming the same amount of damage is done artifically as would have been done naturally, then you'd not be 'out for weeks'? (Based on the fact that you're not incapcitated from a reasonable work out).

Perhaps you'd be able to get away with three times the damage even, but that's blind speculation.

More to the original point: how could you damage them?
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For that to have a chance of working you would also have to get all the hormonal changes that exercise creates rather than just damage a muscle. Think about it, if you do no physical exercise and somehow give your muscles micro tears there would no reason for your muscle to grow back bigger and stronger since there is no stimulous (physical exertion for the muscles to adapt to).
 
How they get damaged from natural work out and what other processes occur, perhaps.
 
This idea has been used to combat bone loss... but the growth mechanisms are almost certainly different.
 
Somewhere someone must know. Muscles are being damaged, events follow and they grow back stronger - what are the factors relevent to artifically recreating this effect?
 
Have you ever seen an ad on TV featuring a large breasted blonde wearing a belt around her midsection talking about getting firmer abs while watching TV? The belt uses electrodes which charge muscles with current, causing them to contract, and thus overburden muscle fibers, making them stronger and more attractive. I don't know if it works, but the idea of artifically triggering the muscles is there.

Though working out may cause muscle to tear, it doesn't mean that the microtears alone are the reason why they get bigger. It has to be used. In other words, punching the muscles you want to grow for 5 minutes everyday in order to damage them and then take a protein shake, probably won't have the same effect as lifting weights and doing it the old fashioned (and less masochistic) way.
 
Blue_UK said:
Somewhere someone must know. Muscles are being damaged, events follow and they grow back stronger - what are the factors relevent to artifically recreating this effect?
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I'm not a body builder, but I happen to know that indeed muscles regrow by tearing them (normally only slightly - resulting in slight to medium muscle pain).

Interestingly, the slower you lift a weight (up to a minute per lifting), the better results you get (the most tearing, but also quite painful mind you).

In the regrowing phase (the next 2-3 days, normally) they eat loads of protein, to make it all possible. Thats also why they rotate their muscle groups when excercising. No point in doing it without giving them the time to regrow, right.

The excercise is the breaking down part, the growing of muscle happens on the actual scar tissue, afterward. Being young helps, naturally, since HGH (human growth hormone) plays a big role in speedy recovery.

Also interesting is that most 'repair' in our body is not really repair but natural regrowth. Your bones are regrown every 3 months on average. A broken leg cannot help but repair itself - it's a 'new' leg basically.

With bones they 'help' larger fractures (with bone tissue missing, for instance) with the aid of simple batteries, believe it or not. This also speeds up recovery greatly. Called electric osteogenesis.

Hope that clears it up a bit.
 
Hhm, I can be mistaken, but ripped muscles do not work, do they?

Anyway, while it is true that muscles can rip and then regrow it is not necessary to destroy/damage them to make them work better, which is the aim of exercise or items that apply electricity to your muscles.

You normally do not damage the muscles in order to train them, that would be nonesense, no muscles rip just because I lift my arm, yet if I do it often enough, the muscles I use while lifting my arms are trained. That means that the body redirects more blood and oxygen to the muscles, which, combined with the nutritiants stored in the muscles, is used to create ATP, which ultimately powers the muscles. After a while, most of the reserves are burnt away, and (damn, I do not know the correct term on English... I really do not know the translation, suffice to say that it is acid), the result is a felt pain. It means that your muscles are overused, and at that point it would be wise to stop. If you ignore that pain, the muscles can be damaged, and will be useless for a lot longer.

If you relax your muscles then, the body tries to prepare for the next time the muscles will be used to this extend, so more protein (and some other nutritiants) will be stored in the muscles, giving them more energy but also making them bigger. This will not only strenghten the muscles in your arm (or whatever you trained), but also your heart or your... damn, another word I do not know, whatever makes you able to breathe, since those muscles will also be prepared.

Anyway, all you need to do in order to motivate your body is contracting your muscles, and this can be archieved by electricity just as well as with normal workout.

But the way to get stronger is not breaking apart your muscle tissue...

In adults, increased strength and muscle mass comes about through an increase in the thickness of the individual fibers and increase in the amount of connective tissue. In the mouse, at least, fibers increase in size by attracting more myoblasts to fuse with them. The fibers attract more myoblasts by releasing the cytokine interleukin 4 (IL-4). Anything that lowers the level of myostatin also leads to an increase in fiber size.
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Interesting sites on muscles and the way they work:
http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/M/Muscles.html
http://health.howstuffworks.com/muscle.htm
 
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Just as an addition:

Blue_UK said:
More to the original point: how could you damage them?
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Ever tried parting them with a knive? I am sure they will grow back so much bigger...
 
Hhm, I can be mistaken, but ripped muscles do not work, do they?

Anyway, while it is true that muscles can rip and then regrow it is not necessary to destroy/damage them to make them work better, which is the aim of exercise or items that apply electricity to your muscles.
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They're called microtears. And while they may cause some of the fibers to not work, the muscle as a whole will work fine, unless the damage is severe. It sounds bad, these microtears, but they're really not. Very commonplace.

The weird thing about building muscle. When you gain muscle mass, it's not because your muscle cells have divided themselves to share more load. It's because the muscle cells themselves have grown. There are just a lot more myofilaments and transverse tubules and muscle cell components per cell.
 
apendrapew said:
They're called microtears. And while they may cause some of the fibers to not work, the muscle as a whole will work fine, unless the damage is severe. It sounds bad, these microtears, but they're really not. Very commonplace.

The weird thing about building muscle. When you gain muscle mass, it's not because your muscle cells have divided themselves to share more load. It's because the muscle cells themselves have grown. There are just a lot more myofilaments and transverse tubules and muscle cell components per cell.
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That's correct. Dreamwalker's point about anything 'destructive' happening is a bit unneccessary. What's more to the point is that it would be hard to mimick the process correctly without some of the necessary ingredients, namely work and probably some discomfort.

Even simply growing hurts, if you think back a bit, btw.

Also, I wonder what you'd want the extra musculature for: to show off, or to pulp somebodies face if they fail to admire them? :eek:
 
Nicely put Dreamwalker. ;)

Plus, a well-developed musculature makes clothes fit better, thus you look better in your clothes. It can make you more confident, increase your testosterone (I only get acne during periods when I'm working out very strenuously), make people think twice before fighting you, and most women love a well-muscled man. I found too, that it made me more aware and appreciative of my body.
 
apendrapew said:
Nicely put Dreamwalker. ;)

Plus, a well-developed musculature makes clothes fit better, thus you look better in your clothes. It can make you more confident, increase your testosterone (I only get acne during periods when I'm working out very strenuously), make people think twice before fighting you, and most women love a well-muscled man. I found too, that it made me more aware and appreciative of my body.
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Do you also use some form of 'help' during those periods of strenuous work-out? Just curious.
 
No. I usually don't need someone to spot me. I can tell which rep is the last one I'll be able to do. That comes with experience, which is to say, if you're new to weightlifting, I would highly highly recommend you find someone to do that for you. A lot of people have gym buddies to work out with to spot and motivate each other. I don't need that though. I'm a very motivated person.
 
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